To think no child benefit/tax credits are unfair on apprenticeships?

[16notanAdult]

Thanks to a post on here I've found out that as my DD is going to do an apprenticeship I will no longer get child benefit or tax credits for her (I'm currently still on TC due to be UC from November ish but she still won't count as a dependent)

She will be earning £5.28 an hour and I will now have to ask her to make up the difference despite the fact she is 16 and on such a small wage. Her wage will need to cover all her transport and work clothes etc.

We have a very tight budget and no ability to get better jobs or more hours due to disability in the household.

It just seems unfair that if she isn't classed as a dependant anymore she isn't entitled to minimum wage.

Why is it shit at 16? Back in the day it was expected you contributed from your Saturday job at 14/15 towards the household expenses.

You can’t do that! She’s a kid .. you should work more to make up the money!!

No the main issue is OP is about to lose a substantial amount of benefit each month.

I paid a quarter of what I earnt from age 16 and had to buy my own non school items. I worked in a shoe shop on a Saturday and did waitressing in the evening. Once family allowance stopped I had to make up the shortfall, noone deserves a free ride

If she did A levels I would still get the benefits.
I've said that she will be keeping her weekend job. It just feels unfai- she will be working four days a week, working not learning.

You have no idea.

I will have no choice. It isn't possible to magic money

You absolutely can't ask her for rent and the financial black hole is your problem not hers. I had a mother like you and was expected to pay for for my own glasses, hair cuts and driving lessons while at school and it's ruined our relationship for life. She is not some sort of cash cow she is your daughter, it is your job to support her until she is well in the right path into adulthood, and at age 16 she is nowhere near that.

I did it. Earned 800 and gave my mum 400. Easy.

This. It is right child benefits are stopped.

Not amongst anyone I know it wasn't. I was always in trouble at school for working too many hours waitressing when I should have been studying for exams!

Then she should be paid a proper wage. There appears to be this understanding that she won't be earning her money. She will be doing the same job as people over 18/25 that are on the higher NMW.

Great post.

Because it is an apprenticeship! Not hard to understand OP.

The whole point of an apprenticeship is it is a job.
It is a job that you are learning while working and getting paid to do it.
I agree that apprenticeship wages are low but it will be enough for most 16 year olds to live on. You will (or should) no longer being paying for things like their clothes, toiletries, snacks, phone bills, gym membership etc. I don’t think you should be asking for ‘rent’ as such but say you need a small contribution towards the family food bill if you are eating meals as a family (if not they can buy their own food). If they want snacks, takeaways etc they pay themselves. Basically you provide a roof over their head and (some of) the food they eat.
They use their wages for everything else.
You will be making up for your financial loss by not having to pay for the “everything else”.

Thankfully my daughter is a little more realistic.
I can not believe that you hate your mother because she made you pay for haircuts and driving lessons. My DD has been paying for haircuts/extras since she started working at 15 as there is no money. Driving lessons are a luxury.

Yanbu.

This is more or less what will happen and I completely agree from 18, but 16 seems a harsh. She will have no chance to save etc.

Yes but what do you think she should be spending her money on other than living expenses?

Of course she can! She's not at school, she's working. Is it fair that a 16 year old has several hundreds of pounds a month to spend on Nando's and makeup, and OP has no disposable income at all?

She's presumably chosen the apprenticeship rather than college - that's the consequence. When kids could leave education at 16 a few years back, no one expected that they wouldn't contribute to the household once they were earning.

There appears to be this understanding that she won't be earning her money. She will be doing the same job as people over 18/25 that are on the higher NMW.

So is every 16 year old in work. Unless they have been exceptionally lucky to get a job that pays them more than the NMW

Well there was a bit more to it than that 🙄 but having to bust a gut working on top of doing 4 A-levels to pay for what all my friends parents just did automatically was a nail in the coffin. I'm a single mum and to me being realistic is providing for my kids and allowing them to focus on their future. Driving lessons are absolutely not a luxury as you are limiting both life and career choices of you can't get yourself wherever you need to be. It is not your daughter's fault there is no spare money. I can't believe anyone would make their school age child pay for a haircut, that's just appalling! It's not me that needs to be more realistic, you need to take more responsibility I'm afraid!

How does your current tax credits / child benefit compare with the £147 a week she’ll get? (Less the travel costs.) I don’t think it is appropriate for her to be able to save her wage whilst the tax payer covers her living costs. As an A level student can’t do this. But - as a household - your family shouldn’t be worse off because she is doing the apprenticeship.

@16notanAdult but she is going to be getting a wage at 16. A low wage yes but a wage plus a second wage if she keeps her weekend job.
So she/your household will have wage + wage but if she went to 6th Form/College it would be child benefit + wage. Still 2 lots of money.
It’s always been that CB stops when a 16 year old leaves education and gets a job. The job (in her case the apprenticeship) replaces the CB.
(I do agree apprenticeship wage is low and also think it’s ridiculous that full minimum wage doesn’t kick in until age 22)

It can be difficult, especially if you weren't planning for it.

I'm not sure it's unfair - or at least, not any more unfair than it would be to not have a difference. And while it's hard for your household, I only think it's shite in general if there has been an expectation set up that it would be just her money and doesn't involve that contribution to the household.

I suggest, if possible, to discuss her applying for better paying apprenticeships. In my area there are more coming out around this time for September starts. The minimum wage for apprenticeships is low and in some fields it is a lot harder than others to get above that minimum, but there are Level 2 and Level 3 apprenticeships that pay well and have good training.

With my teens, we discussing the needs of the household, their own needs, and what their time is worth (minimum for 32 hours is very different to 45), and we set a minimum salary for searches and only go below that if it ticks every single other box and/or has other compensation that counteracts it like a higher amount of holiday time (which has only happened once). I'm wary of apprenticeships that pay the absolute minimum, especially if it's a larger company or they have far more listings than fits their size, it just gives a feeling of taking advantage to get staff at low costs and there have been quality questions and horror stories out there. They should be learning on the job, not just working. Apprenticeships - especially for a 16 year old - should be training focused.

Driving is a luxury for many. I agree with all you say about the disadvantage of not learning. Haircuts are also a luxury, it isn't appalling to not have the money it is the realistic life of many.
Interesting your use of the word 'fault' regarding money. So many on MN are certain that the poor must be bone idle work shy fuckers. Sometimes the best laid plans go awry.