Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Pride Day

124 replies

Itsmyshadow · 16/06/2023 20:58

DD8’s school have a Pride Day coming up. It’s being run by a local LGBTQ organisation who are coming in to hold workshops and assemblies with the kids.

All great on the face of it. I completely support the fact that people are attracted to others of the same sex and that children should be told same sex relationships are as normal and valid as heterosexual relationships.

DD8 has always been interested in things that are more stereotypically associated with boys (football, gaming, Pokémon etc), her closest friends are boys, she plays for a boy’s sports team. She’s had periods over the last few years where she has insisted she is a boy. These periods tend to coincide with an incident e.g. a boy at school telling her girls can’t play football and go away completely when she sees girls like her e.g. watching the England in the Women’s Euros.

She last year joined a girls football academy and all talk of being a boy has gone away. She’s made friendships with girls and seems happy in who she is.

Now on to Pride Day, so the company has sent out some slides in advance to allay any fears. It seems the KS2 programme will be delivered by a guy who identifies as non binary and there are slides on things such as “assigned sex” and lots of pictures of this guy in a dress.

I’m worried the kids will all be told they can just change their gender and it’s as simple as that (apparently everything will be explained at a very high level and in simple terms). I’m worried this will sow the seed in DD’s head that she can be a boy if she wishes, without telling her all the difficulties that would be involved.

WIBU to not let her go to school that day? And would you tell the school why? I think we should email and explain. DH thinks we should just put in a holiday request and cite we are going away for the weekend (we would actually go to his parents so it wouldn’t be a lie, but it would be pretty obvious why we’d chosen the date, and I’d rather explain to the school rather than them think we’re homophobic - which we are definitely not!). DH thinks whatever way we try to explain it to the school they’ll interpret it badly.

OP posts:
FlirtsWithRhinos · 17/06/2023 12:33

Catza · 16/06/2023 23:34

I’m giving you an official definition of “assigned gender” which is to “classify a person as having particular sex or gender on the basis of their genitals at birth”. You see, this is exactly the thing that will be taught to children, a proper definition of terms rather than their emotionally-tinted interpretation based on conscious or subconscious biases.

Show quote history

That would be a rational understanding of the phrase (although as mentioned by PPs, "assigned" is the wrong word for observing the sex that alreday exists in the child. It would be more accurate to say sex is observed and recorded at birth, but in a very small number of instances a DSD means the observation is wrong or uncertain).

But that is not how this phrase is used in practice. The concept of "assigning" sex at birth is the baseline from which the narrative "the doctor who assigned my gender got it wrong" follows. Maybe not the first time they learn about "assigned at birth" but certainly as they progress through their education.

So it is right to object to the "assigning at birth" concept exactly because it's starting the child down an ideological path towards belief that mis-assigned gender is a real thing and not simply "emotionally-tinted interpretation based on conscious or subconscious biases".

FelisCatus0 · 17/06/2023 12:34

Remotecontrolatmyside · 17/06/2023 05:49

You are making so many assumptions about the presentation, about your daughter's possible decisions and about how school will handle this.

This is from the OP, @Remotecontrolatmyside . From the OP's child's school:
a row on newborn babies on it and says something like “a doctor assigns your sex at birth”, making it out like it’s an opinion or something.

There is no need to 'make assumptions' on how they're going to handle it. The school has made it crystal clear they are teaching children a doctor chooses your sex at birth.

itwasntmetho · 17/06/2023 12:41

My son is swerving rse for the same reason, he is only friends with girls atm and has more money in common with them. Idk why they have to conflate ideology with sexual orientation.

FelisCatus0 · 17/06/2023 12:41

Itsmyshadow · 17/06/2023 11:05

Thanks all. Glad I’m not being unreasonable. I’d already drafted an email raising my concerns (not yet sent) but I’m tempted to word it more strongly after reading your support.

I think most parents are oblivious to what will be taught (the slides have only been sent to me because I requested them). I therefore can’t see many people raising concerns. I think anyone who’s fully against the notion of teaching anything LGBT will not send their kids in and won’t have asked to see the slides as decision will have been already made. Most other people will just send their kids in without knowing the content.

OP, are you on a school/class whatsApp chat group or something like it? If so, put those slides in the group and ask the fellow parents on the chat if they are comfortable with their child being told a doctor assigns their sex.

If not, if you have the numbers of any parents, text them the same.

OdeToBarney · 17/06/2023 12:45

Lcb123 · 17/06/2023 05:37

YABU. Unless she chooses not to go, I cannot believe you’d override her consent to attend

If OPs DD "consented" to underage sex (I know this is not possible) or taking drugs, would they be UR to override that? Kids don't always know what's best for them and it's our job as parents to decide. Consent my fucking arse.

MargotBamborough · 17/06/2023 12:46

Catza · 16/06/2023 22:40

Assigned sex simply means determining sex at birth based on characteristics. It has nothing to do with gender reassignment. I honestly don’t think this is anything to worry about. It is vital for a child to understand that gender is a social construct and they can chose to play “male” sports and wear trousers and dresses without being teased. This will help them to develop a more compassionate and fair view of society which is surely why the school is having this talk to begin with. The difference between your daughter getting a write or a wrong message is how you chose to approach it at home. If you make a secret out of it and make her feel like this is something that shouldn’t be talked about, then she will have no opportunity to talk about it with you and will take her questions elsewhere. And you are making a strong statement about that by considering not letting her go to school.
When I was growing up sections about human reproduction were censored out of biology textbooks for similar reasons. We got our information elsewhere which was much less reliable or sensitive to our age.

The whole concept of sex being "assigned at birth" is deliberate truth twisting. It's designed to promote the narrative that your biological sex observed at birth isn't always your true sex, and the idea that humans can somehow change sex, which of course they can't.

If there is only one kind of sex, the word "assigned" is completely superfluous. Your sex at birth is just your sex and it remains constant and immutable throughout your life and even after your death. Adding the word "assigned" suggests that there is a different kind of sex, the kind of sex you can acquire through hormones and surgery. That is plainly incorrect.

You are right about gender being a social construct and it being fine for girls to wear trousers and play football, but the whole idea of "assigned sex" actually runs contrary to that and promotes the idea that if you don't conform to stereotypes which certain people have decided "match" your genitals, there may be a mismatch between your "assigned sex" and your true sex, or gender identity. The whole idea of it deliberately and intentionally conflates sex and gender.

Someone unironically talking about sex assigned at birth is a fully paid up member of the, er, ideology. And I wouldn't want them anywhere near my vulnerable child.

Ingrowncrotchhair · 17/06/2023 12:46

Itsmyshadow · 16/06/2023 21:20

The “Assigned Sex” slide has a picture of a row on newborn babies on it and says something like “a doctor assigns your sex at birth”, making it out like it’s an opinion or something.

I’m worried the school has no control at all over what will be said.

@Itsmyshadow can you share a pic of the this slide or, better yet, the whole presentation, please?

Awumminnscotland · 17/06/2023 12:55

Catza · 16/06/2023 22:40

Assigned sex simply means determining sex at birth based on characteristics. It has nothing to do with gender reassignment. I honestly don’t think this is anything to worry about. It is vital for a child to understand that gender is a social construct and they can chose to play “male” sports and wear trousers and dresses without being teased. This will help them to develop a more compassionate and fair view of society which is surely why the school is having this talk to begin with. The difference between your daughter getting a write or a wrong message is how you chose to approach it at home. If you make a secret out of it and make her feel like this is something that shouldn’t be talked about, then she will have no opportunity to talk about it with you and will take her questions elsewhere. And you are making a strong statement about that by considering not letting her go to school.
When I was growing up sections about human reproduction were censored out of biology textbooks for similar reasons. We got our information elsewhere which was much less reliable or sensitive to our age.

Sex is not assigned by a designated sec assigner! It's observed.
They teach "what ie transgender at age 9/ 10 at our school .
They first challenge gender stereotypes and say you can be any type of boy or girl you want to be and wear what you like, etc. Then the next lesson is that some people feel their gender doesn't fit their sex and a man may " choose to live as a woman." It gives no explanation as to what that means given they've just taught that anyone can wear what they like and clothes don't make you a boy or a girl.
That's why teaching children this is indoctrination. Kids don't have the critical thinking skills or world knowledge to challenge the bullshit dressed up as reasonable teaching.

MadCatLady27 · 17/06/2023 13:18

Has your school got a sex and relationship education (RSE) Policy - it should be on their website

I'd say this comes under such topics so have a look in that and see what it says will be covered and about whether there's a right to withdraw

Budikka · 17/06/2023 20:12

"DH thinks we should just put in a holiday request and cite we are going away for the weekend (we would actually go to his parents so it wouldn’t be a lie, but it would be pretty obvious why we’d chosen the date, and I’d rather explain to the school rather than them think we’re homophobic - which we are definitely not!)."

Why bother even explaining to the school? You owe them nothing. They unilaterally decided to start this thing.

Why not have the uncoolest, squarest, straightest teacher teach these things? A guy in a dress who identifies as non-binary?

I would take my kids off that day and maybe give them a really good scientific lesson, very advanced, explaining that some men get off on wearing dresses, the importance of science, how religion/genderwoowoo/whatever has always tried to deny science.

Look we all know it is completely unscientific. It honestly feels like we are living in an episode of V, when earth gets invaded and people just know they are really reptiles! They went after the scientists then as well...

cartalena · 17/06/2023 20:24

Keep her off. I'd do the same and would be telling them why.

Being gay or bi has nothing at all to do with trans and in continuously baffled why it's all clubbed in together.

Also, non-binary is not real.

Original poster
Itsmyshadow · 17/06/2023 20:25

We do have one but a parent a couple of years ago tried to canvas support for something on that and someone told the school. They were hauled in to the head and the group admins reminded of the school’s social media policy. There’s no way I’m sticking my neck out on this one!

OP posts:
itwasntmetho · 17/06/2023 20:46

Itsmyshadow · 17/06/2023 20:25

We do have one but a parent a couple of years ago tried to canvas support for something on that and someone told the school. They were hauled in to the head and the group admins reminded of the school’s social media policy. There’s no way I’m sticking my neck out on this one!

I don't blame you, I'd just quietly do you and don't be seen to influence other parents.

You absolutely can and probably should notify teachers as to why though, their inclusivity drive unfortunately makes the school an unsuitable environment for DC who don't conform to ridged sex stereotypes and people who don't believe in this ideology.

DfE guidance is to not reinforce harmful stereotypes and to ensure all teachings are evidence based.

sweetpotatobeans · 18/06/2023 07:45

Maybe because schools are supposed to be teaching kids things that are true, not things that are untrue?

Sex is inferred at birth, or often long before birth, with a very high degree of correspondence to a fact in the world. The analogy's been made to inferring your car's speed from the speedometer. Your car's speed is a simple fact in the world, your inference of it is made with a very high degree of accuracy from your dashboard instrument. You do not assign a speed to the car and you do not assign a sex to a baby.

When facts and language are distorted in this way it's worth questioning why that's happening.

kthnxbai · 18/06/2023 14:50

I'd keep DD off but avoid the entire conversation by calling her in sick instead.

Even if this wasn't an absolute bin fire of mess around science and personal identity that it is, it's not appropriate for KS2.

Sumthingsweet · 26/10/2023 22:22

Agree load of shit keep her off - next they will be convincing then to have sex at 12 ok

Sumthingsweet · 26/10/2023 22:22

When you die your skeleton male or female fact

deltablue · 26/10/2023 23:30

No fucking way would I let her attend and I would be formally complaining and removing her if that is their ideology. Enough of this.

heyitsthistle · 26/10/2023 23:35

I would absolutely be keeping my children at home that day with a very stern email to the Headteacher.

homeishere · 26/10/2023 23:35

Of course you’re not being unreasonable. The school are by holding such a ridiculous event.

I’d write to them explaining so, and asserting that your child will not attend because of it.

Surreyclaire · 26/10/2023 23:37

No way would my kids be going to this and I would mail the school to tell them why

bombastix · 26/10/2023 23:39

I got fed up of this myself from school. DD seriously confused. Long conversation on it all which not sure helped.

Eventually snapped and told that the LGBTQIA police did not actually need her to fill out a form, or make a declaration of intent. She's 11 and seemed to think it was something she had to say, which is ridiculous. Very annoying for me, confusing for her.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page