AIBU to ask how to deal with this?

[DilemmaDelilah]

Over month ago we had my two grandchildren overnight. I love them to bits and we try very hard to make them comfortable and to feel at home, but I freely admit that I find it difficult sometimes. We are getting on a bit and neither of us are in very good health. I also believe in good manners, including good table manners, and I am quite strict.
To set the scene - I had the week before had to see my GP, and she had referred me to a two week wait appointment at the hospital, which was due just a few days after we had the children, so I was very stressed and more cross with the children when they misbehaved than I would normally be. The eldest (12) was being particularly obnoxious, and I did something I thought right at the time but which my daughter considers unforgivable (not physical violence and not dangerous). On dropping the children home I told her what I had done as I knew she wouldn't like it. I realise it was wrong.
The week after, I was diagnosed with cancer. I messaged my children to let them know, no response from that daughter. I had some items of school uniform for one of my grandchildren that I was sewing name tags on and dropped them over, but she wouldn't even look at me and certainly hasn't thanked me. I have tried to contact her on numerous occasions but she won't take my calls so I couldn't even tell her how sorry I am.
Last week.she sent me the most awful letter - telling me what a terrible mother I had been, listing awful things I had done and how she had made allowances for me but wasn't going to do it any more. It was so very hurtful and I cried all afternoon. I replied to tell her how sorry I was for everything - no response. I know I wasn't a very good mother when my children were growing up and I have apologised to my children for that several times, but I always tried to do my best, it just wasn't good enough. I really struggled, we were very poor, I wasn't happy in my marriage and my upbringing meant that I always felt that I wasn't good enough so I set myself, and my children, impossible standards. Despite that I thought I had managed to do quite a good job, but I obviously havent. I have also tried to support my children now they are adults, without interfering, and that has been at considerable cost (not so much financial, more mental and time) to myself.
The letter was so very hurtful, I have apologised, I still wake up crying and the pain from that and the worry about my daughter is way more than my worry about my cancer, but she still won't talk to me.
I don't know what to do now. She obviously wants something else from me but I don't know what that is. If I did know what it was I would do it if I can. I start chemotherapy next week, my mental resilience is already very low and my physical resilience will be severely depleted. I have to be strong for my husband, who isn't well himself, I need my daughter back and I don't know how I am going to manage. It's not that she does things for me, because usually it is us that is doing things for them, I just want my (previously) lovely daughter back.

So are you saying her child is 12 and was misbehaving in the car (which is dangerous for you, as the driver) and you said if he did that again he'd have to walk. Then he did it again and you made him walk. Is that it? I would have done exactly the same thing unless the walk involved walking down a dark alley or through an underpass.

You have apologised (god knows why) and she hasn't accepted it. Now all your energy needs to be focused on you. You have to stay strong to cope with chemo and your daughter's issues have to go into the background here.

I'd withdraw a bit since she's being so horrible and I wouldn't message her or call her for a while. Take care of yourself. When she repeats your sins to others, hopefully they will say they would have done what you did.

@sodthesodoff
Besides who calls their grandchild obnoxious? Or gets angry about a 12 year old wetting the bed?

The DGM DOESN'T get angry at him wetting the bed the MOTHER does. Read the posts!!!

@Nanny0gg if you want to argue semantics about what the op called her grandchild that's fine. It's still a shitty to thing to call your family. Especially when her main gripe is the 12 year old lied about wetting the bed. That's hardly obnoxious. It's a situation that requires tact and care not anger

And to everyone saying oh she can't have been that bad a parent for her daughter to allow her to look after the kids. It's not like that. A child will do anything to believe their parent is loving. If the daughter was raised in a strict environment with high standards (ops own words) she will probably have grown up feeling unworthy and undeserving of love. Perhaps she blames herself. I could go on. But the relationship between bad parents and children bringing up their own family is complex.

Besides the op has flounced off as she wasn't getting the sympathy she wanted. I have zero truck for people who use the 'I hope this never happens to you' card as emotional manipulation. It's the lowest of the low. And you can bet your bottom dollar she's said this to her daughter to emotionally blackmail her into getting what she wants. Poor daughter.

She said the boy lies all the time. And then uses the example of wetting the bed

She then says she doesn't get annoyed - but she's angry with the lying. So what is she angry about

I don't think we're getting the full picture let's be honest.

Childhood trauma is so misunderstood. I had an horrific childhood, domestic violence, sexual abuse, addiction, terror. You still form emotional attachments with your care-givers, even when they ain't giving care.

When you reach young adulthood and the care giver can no longer harass you like you're a small child they sort of begin making amends. Then you grab at it with both hands because it's what you've craved your whole, entire life.

Despite the trauma, you can forgive. Slowly you forget something because you have this new 'adult' relationship with your parents. Having not dealt with your trauma, your judgment is clouded and you want your children to having a loving relationship with your new and improved parent. What could be better? You begin to trust them and rely on them the way you couldn't when you were a child. I love my parents and they are terrible people, awful in fact. But I maintain a relationship with them, however I've always made my excuses regarding them being alone with my children. We visit as a family or I visit alone. My sister on the other hand is a single parent who went through the same process has me and has become reliant on them for childcare and the situation is very complicated for my sister. I cannot judge her for her reliance on our abusive parents. I can easily see how this situation could arise. Looks like the DD gave the DM another shot at it and the DM proved her actions to be unchanged.

I can't even articulate the complexity of hoe and why I understand how this played out. Because I am so unwell from my childhood, my brain barely works.

This is not an attack on the OP, just an understanding from the daughters perspective. I wish you strength to cope with your diagnosis OP. I think your relationship with your daughter needs breathing space and you need to focus on getting well.

@DilemmaDelilah
I understand your shame and guilt and sense of panic.

Read "Rules of Estrangement" I found it very helpful

@Isthatascratchonmygrandmother I didn't go no contact with my mother immediately, I would quietly just accept her being 'difficult' with me for years.

for years I accepted it I was late thirties when I totally cut contact with her as she was mean to my children. I'd never ever have left them under her care unsupervised, and I was a single parent for a long time too, and struggled through it.
In all honestly if I had nowhere to go I'd have opted for a cardboard box rather than move back home with her.

I often wonder at my stupidity for constantly putting myself in a position where she could continue her abuse of me despite me being a fully functioning autonomous adult with a job and own accommodation and no reliance on her whatsoever.

But I and you crucially, would not leave our young defenseless children with these toxic abusive parents. OP's DD has done and it was not an emergency she wanted to go out.

And just to prove how the 'can't have been that bad' theory. My father is in hospital right now dying. He's early sixties and his addictions have caught up with him. He is frail and weak. He remains a terrible parent. As soon as I got the call from my mother I was in my car and at the hospital. My sister consoling my mother and running around for her. I will hold my Dad's hand when he dies, tell him that I love him and I forgive him. I don't forgive him. But because of what they've made me, I will continue to show them the mercy they don't deserve. It's just who I am.

It was bad, really fucking bad. But for some reason, I cannot quit them.

I fully get where you are coming from.

I used to judge my sibling for the same thing. Especially when I know my parents have treated my sisters children badly too.

However with childhood trauma I think each case is so complex. It looks like the daughter has stepped in to protect her children now and that's a good thing.

Hi OP,

I'm really sorry about your cancer diagnosis.

You don't need the stress of your daughter punishing you on top of everything else. I think you need to repeatedly remind yourself of the following -

I always do my best and even if it's not the right thing, it was what I thought was right at the time.

I would send her a letter saying you are sorry if you let her down when she was small but you loved her very much, still do and when she's ready to talk you are ready to listen.

Personally I think your daughter sounds selfish but nobody is perfect and I understand you want her around you now.

I've been through the cancer wars, you are at a very scary period now. Hopefully when you get started with your treatment you will feel more settled.

To PP, I know a girl who loves her parents and is in frequent contact with them, but she is also getting counselling for the PTSD that their parenting caused her. Relationships with abusive/bad parents can be very complicated.

OP, firstly I'm really sorry about your diagnosis

I think your behaviour towards your grandchildren triggered unresolved bad feeling from your daughter's childhood and that's where this letter came from. I also don't think it's reasonable to punish for lying about wetting the bed. You can say they're not embarrassed, but you really can't truly know that. Children can seem totally fine but deep down be feeling lots of things.

I think your daughter needs time, and just let her say her piece (maybe multiple times) and don't argue it. Even if you feel she's being ridiculous or unfair at times. Just view every interaction as an opportunity to rebuild a damaged relationship, not an opportunity to prove you're in the right. I'm sure she will come round x

So if you want advice for you it's going to be hard to hear because it is going to take you out of where you feel comfortable (saying you did wrong and then hoping everyone moves on) and into a place that is uncomfortable, which is where you have to expand your self awareness, consider it from the point of view of others, whether you need to change and that you can't make anyone do anything.

You say that you know you shouldn't be this way/that your daughter wouldn't want it, yet you still did it. You need to sit with that and understand why. That will be hard, but truly changing and demonstrating that you are changing, and doing it because you want to and not in a transactional sense, is the way to rebuild with your daughter. And she may not trust you again, but you have to do the work.

I grew up with a very volatile parent. The volatility, snapping and being out of control was terrifying as a child. Their reasons were complex and I can have empathy for them as an adult and also for me as a child. I am working very hard not to repeat patterns. My kids have a relationship with that parent, but if there was a sniff of them repeating their behaviour from my childhood trust would be so broken.

If you are repeating patterns then you saying 'I know I was a bad parent and I'm so sorry' is meaningless because you actually haven't changed. So stop feeling guilty, because that is also about indulging your narrative and start doing the work to change. That's the route to the future with your daughter.

So you're allowed to make assumptions but the other poster isn't? You've got exactly one side of the story and it's not from the daughter, so let's not pretend you have any additional insight.

I suspect this one event was the tiny straw that broken the camels back for your daughter. I can understand this - my mother did something small last year that triggered an emotional response in me with regards to something in my childhood. To her, my response must seem over the top. And I feel the same to some extent. But that one small act has brought up years of repressed feelings and I can't help that. Counselling is helping me. I have had to step back contact between her and my children. Im not sure she knows what to do about the situation, much like you OP. It's hard for everyone and I hope we can move forward in time. I hope you and your daughter can too.

This! If you can't deal with the responses in here and being made to feel guilty then why post! You sound a lot like my mother who cannot take responsibility for anything and then wonders why she doesn't have a good relationship with her two children or her grandchildren
If you want answers look inward

Would you trust them to look after your children though?
I’m sorry that you are experiencing such a difficult situation. If you don’t mind me saying so you are dealing with it with dignity and compassion in my opinion. I hope you have someone equally kind to support you.

Thank you for this.

No I wouldn't trust them with my children but I have a supportive OP who has placed boundaries where I wasn't able. Before i could figure out the harm they had done. He wasn't against our children visiting he just believes it was unsafe for our children to be left with them and he was right.

My sister has only ever had toxic partners due to her trauma so I believe she is more vulnerable and relies on them in many ways.

But I don't want to derail the thread any longer.

I wish you well OP in your health battle and the difficulties with your family.

Your post has really triggered me as your tone and way with words reminds me so much of someone in my life. They were/are emotionally abusive, incredibly dominant and their version of events is always “the truth”. What my person does is push people to snapping point and then quickly produce some catastrophe that has suddenly happened to them, meaning we come running back. I wonder if the OP does similar (I understand this pattern of behaviour is quite common) and if the daughter even believes the cancer diagnosis? I’m certainly not saying the OP doesn’t have a cancer diagnosis but my first thought was the daughter might not believe it to be true, which is why she is not reacting to it.

(I understand this pattern of behaviour is quite common)

Its incredibly common.

What did he actually do in the car at the time?

Not telling you he'd wet the bed isn't a punishable lie. No wonder he's embarrassed and scared to tell you if you think it is.

He probably didn't want to stay for that exact reason. Because his mom doesn't openly ask him if he'd wet the bed.

Assuming your partner isn't her dad (based on what you've said), whats her relationship like with them? Is she communicating with them?

Only evidence I can see of you not being a great mother is that your daughter sounds like a callous bitch who has spoilt her own children rotten. If you were really such a monster why would she have left her own children with you, let alone overnight?

Leave them to it - cancer treatment is a long and tiring road and you need to focus on looking after yourself. Hopefully you have other supportive friends and family.

It's textbook narcs I'm afraid.

They push you to a point where you snap then there'll be a health emergency to bring you back into line. Flying monkeys pass the message on telling you you're a terrible person if you don't fix the relationship as they're ill. How could you do this at a time like this? It's all emotional blackmail. And I'm sorry you're going through this.

I'll be honest it was so textbook it was my first thought when I read the op. Ops subsequent posts have only added to that theory. Would not be surprised if she only posted because she thought her daughter would see it.

I don’t believe that the consequence was walking a route home they usually walk to school.
Why would you immediately regret that and tell your daughter - surely she’d have seen/noticed for herself and it doesn’t seem to me a punishment to regret.

It sounds like your daughter has unresolved issues with you from her childhood, she put them aside for the sake of her kids but obviously you’ve done something that’s triggered her.

I can’t imagine how you must feel with the cancer diagnosis and it’s awful, awful timing but perhaps your daughter doesn’t want to hear about it because she is still suffering from her childhood and your behaviour with her children has brought it back.

OP, You say the eldest child is 12, how old was the youngest child you made walk home?
Also what time of day was it?

I wasn't going to read or respond to any more, but I just wanted to clear something up. I definitely was NOT cross about my grandchild wetting the bed, I didn't even find out until after I got home. I am never cross about that and so there is no reason why he shouldn't have told me. He wets the bed frequently and is never embarrassed about it, with us anyway. It was just an example of one of the many many lies he told that weekend, most completely ridiculous, and just said to wind us up. He can be the most delightful child but that weekend he was being obnoxious. And yes, children CAN be obnoxious, I didn't say he WAS obnoxious, he isn't.