AIBU to ask how to deal with this?

[DilemmaDelilah]

Over month ago we had my two grandchildren overnight. I love them to bits and we try very hard to make them comfortable and to feel at home, but I freely admit that I find it difficult sometimes. We are getting on a bit and neither of us are in very good health. I also believe in good manners, including good table manners, and I am quite strict.
To set the scene - I had the week before had to see my GP, and she had referred me to a two week wait appointment at the hospital, which was due just a few days after we had the children, so I was very stressed and more cross with the children when they misbehaved than I would normally be. The eldest (12) was being particularly obnoxious, and I did something I thought right at the time but which my daughter considers unforgivable (not physical violence and not dangerous). On dropping the children home I told her what I had done as I knew she wouldn't like it. I realise it was wrong.
The week after, I was diagnosed with cancer. I messaged my children to let them know, no response from that daughter. I had some items of school uniform for one of my grandchildren that I was sewing name tags on and dropped them over, but she wouldn't even look at me and certainly hasn't thanked me. I have tried to contact her on numerous occasions but she won't take my calls so I couldn't even tell her how sorry I am.
Last week.she sent me the most awful letter - telling me what a terrible mother I had been, listing awful things I had done and how she had made allowances for me but wasn't going to do it any more. It was so very hurtful and I cried all afternoon. I replied to tell her how sorry I was for everything - no response. I know I wasn't a very good mother when my children were growing up and I have apologised to my children for that several times, but I always tried to do my best, it just wasn't good enough. I really struggled, we were very poor, I wasn't happy in my marriage and my upbringing meant that I always felt that I wasn't good enough so I set myself, and my children, impossible standards. Despite that I thought I had managed to do quite a good job, but I obviously havent. I have also tried to support my children now they are adults, without interfering, and that has been at considerable cost (not so much financial, more mental and time) to myself.
The letter was so very hurtful, I have apologised, I still wake up crying and the pain from that and the worry about my daughter is way more than my worry about my cancer, but she still won't talk to me.
I don't know what to do now. She obviously wants something else from me but I don't know what that is. If I did know what it was I would do it if I can. I start chemotherapy next week, my mental resilience is already very low and my physical resilience will be severely depleted. I have to be strong for my husband, who isn't well himself, I need my daughter back and I don't know how I am going to manage. It's not that she does things for me, because usually it is us that is doing things for them, I just want my (previously) lovely daughter back.

It sounds like you have a problem with control.

Why are you strict with your grandchildren? It's not your job to discipline them. To be "strict. It's your job to be supportive, measured, fun - a nice break away from normality to be treated and loved. To be clear, it's ok having boundaries, but it sounds like you go out of your way, continually, to try to get people to behave in the way you want them to. Do you have fun with your grandkids?

You're pushing your grandchildren away, like you did your own children.

Relax. Let people be imperfect. Let kids be a bit cheeky.

The most frustrating thing for your daughter is probably that you can see your errors but you're not willing to change. An apology is worthless if you won't change. You don't HAVE to be strict. Yes, you were stressed with current health issues but it doesn't sound like an isolated offence. It sounds like you are known to be a killjoy and control freak.

I don't think this is about making the kids walk home (which is overly strict imo but not end of the world stuff). I think it's about your general attitude.

@DilemmaDelilah hugs to you for this really hard situation at a very hard time.

Firstly, I agree with those who say this whole thing has triggered something painful for your daughter from her childhood.

Secondly, I think validating her feelings is going to be needed. Give her a week and send a letter back validating her feelings and thanking her for being honest. Focus on how you feel after that - something like I love my grandchildren very much, but in the moment felt overwhelmed by (whatever they were doing - the words they were using or their tone etc) and when overwhelmed I resort to needing space/quiet etc. Tell her you found out the next day you have cancer and that especially now the most important thing is your relationship with your family. Validate again that if you had to live life over you'd have made different choices as a mother and that you love her and your grandchildren very much. Then give her space.

FWIW - I don't think your punishment was in any way cruel. I'd have been cross with my children for behaviour that made you resort to that. But again I don't think it's really about this, I think it runs much deeper for your daughter.

Hoping your health improves and you have gentle care in the coming weeks and months.

This is pretty much exactly what I was going to say.

It sounds like the straw that broke the camels back from your daughters side, she had potentially come to terms with the childhood she had that wasn't good - then watching the people she loves most, her children, be put through something that's perhaps quite similar could have been enough for her.

I don't think you can just get your daughter back, if she wants to put space between you then as painful as it might be for you, it needs to be respected.

It sounds like your daughter has read and bought into a lot of the gentle parenting stuff and is viewing her own childhood through that lense. If she is, she's probably considering adults who imposed unpleasant consequences for bad behaviour/made her follow rules etc even when she didn't want to, as "traumatic".

Just wanted to let you know, I'm 40 and my parents raised me in a way that's very similar to mainstream parenting now. Our family was child-focused. My parents loved us dearly and also worked hard and we had busy lives so they may have been quite lax. They certainly didn't just impose rules on us all of the time.

All three of us kids have professional jobs with good salaries. We are all kind and responsible people. All blessed to have children with long term husband/wives etc.

I can assure you, being strict is not a necessity. Having boundaries is important but kindness and good morals is most important.

This is what I think too. Also as another PP said she could be reacting this way partly because of the cancer diagnosis. Those two things might be connected in her mind now and fear and anger are all caught up together.

My first thought when you said she needs something else from you was actually that what she might need is space. If she's feeling triggered and living out something from her childhood then she might not need more apologies, she might need you to respect her choice and give her some space for a bit.

You say despite all that you think you did a good job as a mother, maybe this is part of the issue, previous apologies might have been couched in this feeling that really it wasn't so bad. Different children can experience very different things from the same childhood, maybe what she experienced felt a lot worse to her than it did to your other DC. Maybe the legacy of you expecting too much means she's constantly beating herself up for perceived failures. Never feeling good enough can have a massive impact on your child's life.

I was angry yes. I knew his mother wouldn't like it but I did it anyway and I am beating myself up about it. I did not walk with him. I was not driving. She did not know about my diagnosis at the time, because I hadn't had it, but I did tell her I was exceptionally stressed at the time. She won't let me talk to her. Child was lying ALL the time, answering back ALL the time, general bad manners and rudeness. Example of lying - he wets the bed, not a problem, I'm never cross about that, no reason to lie, but I ask him how his bed was in the morning and he says it's fine, but after we got back I find it is wet. He couldn't have missed it because he wears a pull up at night and it would have been soaking. He's never embarrassed about it with us because we never make a thing of it... In fact when the younger child wet the bed a couple of visits ago he said that he was surprised that I wasn't cross like mummy. Yes I expect that the children told her I was cross all the time. Yes I expect that brought back memories from her childhood. If I write her a letter she won't read it. Yes I think she overcompensates for what she feels were the shortcomings in her own childhood.
I am not saying that I am not to blame - I just want to know how to fix it. In a couple of weeks I'm going to be in the middle of chemo for 3 months minimum, then surgery. She won't talk to me, if we don't sort something out in the next week I fear it is going to be too late as I'm just not going to have the mental or physical strength to pick up any more load.

Well that’s one way to be completely dismissive of someone’s experience that you don’t know anything about. I doubt this woman has cut her mother off following a cancer diagnosis due to reading a gentle parenting book. Do you even know what gentle parenting is?

I'm surprised by some of these responses to be honest. I have never met a grandparent who called their child obnoxious, and I wouldn't be happy with the punishment either. What were the children doing?

I'd agree that it has probably brought up memories for your daughter which should be addressed if possible.

Im really sorry about your diagnosis and I hope your treatment goes well.

It's not your place to discipline your grandchildren.

As the child of a dysfunctional and emotionally abusive mother is is hugely triggering to have your parent treat your children they way they treated you and it validates feelings of unacceptability.

It can take a little while to get there but eventually, we cut you out.

Example of lying - he wets the bed, not a problem, I'm never cross about that, no reason to lie, but I ask him how his bed was in the morning and he says it's fine, but after we got back I find it is wet. He couldn't have missed it because he wears a pull up at night and it would have been soaking. He's never embarrassed about it with us because we never make a thing of it...

How can you say he’s never embarrassed about it when he clearly is?

Its quite odd imo to consider that “lying” in a way you’re obviously cross about, rather than understanding he likely says “fine” because he is embarrassed.

Did you discipline him for lying about that specifically?

Walking is not really punishment and of course it is OPs job to reprimand them if she is in loco parentis. Good grief.
If people think that this is not acceptable it goes some way to explain the behaviour of many young kids and ever-offended young adults these days.

I do feel that there is a hidden story. My mother was awful. Truly. Has never apologised and to this day thinks she was a great mum.
I have adult kids and have been told by them my shortcomings and in honesty though I see some of them, I was still shocked by the difference in perspective.
It is likely that your daughter has been wounded by her childhood and is overcompensating with her own children.

I am not sure how you get her back. It maybe that it is best to leave her now and wait. I stopped contact with my own mother a few months ago over an incident which really upset me and now I am starting to get over it. Unless your daughter is exceptionally unreasonable or there is something you aren’t telling us and it’s far worse than indicated, I suspect the same will happen here.

More importantly, I am so sorry about your diagnosis and I wish you every strength in your treatment and recovery.

For someone who doesn't want to cast blame on your daughter you're doing an awful lot of it. Personally I am tired of inadequate parents forgiving themselves on the grounds that they did the "best they could". They quite obviously didn't
You should not be referring to your grandchildren as obnoxious and neither should they be coming to stay with you again, especially with your health issues. Mommasgotabrandnewbag is absolutely correct, if grandparents blow their second chance then that should be it, especially when they don't seem to want it and no one enjoys it. It only becomes damaging to all concerned

He wets the bed at 12 and you don’t think he’s embarrassed about it? Of course he is. He’s probably mortified about it which is why he lies.
To be honest I was surprised that he still has a bath and bedtime story routine at his age - do his parents do that too?

Please look up the meaning of the word you used 'reprimand' and the word I used 'discipline'

There is a very big difference. What the OP enacted was discipline. It is not her place to discipline a child who is not her own.

To those of you that have made supportive and constructive responses, thank you. To those that are adding to my already nearly intolerable burden of guilt - I hope you are never in a similar situation.
I don't have the mental resilience left to manage any more guilt than I already have so I don't think I'm going to be able to read any more responses. I'm not making excuses for myself and I acknowledge that the fault is mine. I was just hoping for some helpful responses on how to deal with this, of course it I am asking for help FOR ME, the post is going to be about me.

Agree with pp who said if the child was in your care, you have to manage them as you see fit. Works both ways - there qre thongs my mum lets my dd do that l would never allow. But it her house, it is her rules. My mum wasn't perfect, no parent is but as an adult l couldn't sit there and tell her all her faults - bit late now anyway!!
Wishing you strength and luck for your treatment op.

I'm going to go against thr grain here. I think your (grown up) daughter sounds pretty self-centred and awful. You have a cancer diagnosis which she has not even acknowledged but instead writes you a long, critical letter about her childhood?

If she is genuinely so traumatised by her childhood, why is she allowing you to look after her kids so she can go out? That seems odd to me. If I had thought my mother was a terrible mother, no way would my kids be allowed to be in her care.

I don't see what is so terrible about warning a 12 year old to stop misbehaving or the consequence is walking a few minutes home, and then enacting it.

To understand how to resolve it you need to understand why it happened. You do not seem willing or open to doing that because "it adds to your intolerable burden of guilt"

You have a lot of growing up to do.

Ah and there we have it.

I think you've shown your true colours here.

Didn't take too long for a couple of honest replies to your post to anger you. Can imagine it takes less for a 12 year old.

Tbh, I can’t see anything wrong with chucking misbehaving kids out of the car and getting them to walk. It seems a massive over reaction on her part-so there must be something else going on. Probably relating to her feelings about her own childhood. Her behaviour seems very cruel considering your diagnosis-as well as taking advantage of your help when she wants childcare. So you can’t have been that bad a parent. Could you also write her a letter saying that you love her and the children very much and how sad you are. I’d expect my children to be polite and well mannered around grandparents.

It’s not like parenting comes with any instructions is it? All you have is how your parents brought you up, how you would like to do it differently, societal expectations and the pressures of adult living and your own lived experience.
You are looking back with a lot of regret and sadness at your own perceived shortcomings for which you have heartfelt apologised. It’s all we can do.
It sounds to me like your daughter is quite a stressed parent herself and has two children who still wet the bed, so is probably struggling with doubts herself on her own parenting style. I also get the distinct feeling that she is bullying you with your guilt that you should of been a better parent. Where was her father in all of this? There is no magic solution to resolve this. She might agree to go to a family therapist with you so she can finally voice all the hurt and get it out, but for the moment, give her some space and let things settle down.
A 12 year old should know how to behave while you are driving, following through is good. The consequence was not disproportionate.
Lying constantly is a symptom of something not being right, I doubt it’s anything you have done.
I am sorry to hear of your diagnosis, going through cancer is a bit of a marathon, you need to pace yourself and look after your health in the best possible way you can. Your husband needs to step up and not be passively waiting for you to carry on looking after him in the same way. Look for solutions that work for both of you. You did your best 💐.

What’s so bad about what she’s written?

@MrsRachelDanvers it's all passive aggressive. Thanking only the people who have been nice

And basically saying she's going to disregard everything useful anyone else has said.

It's not about her. If she wants to fix this she needs to think about it from her daughters perspective. But she's not. She's totally fixated on how things affect her.

She's missed the point spectacularly. Her attitude is awful. And it's an insight into her parenting and grand parenting.

Besides who calls their grandchild obnoxious? Or gets angry about a 12 year old wetting the bed?

I'm not getting a feeling of living warmth for your daughter or grandchildren from your posts. More like it's a duty or burden to have kids/ grandkids. It s all me me me. Being a single parent is hard but plenty are and one thing that is free in this world is love..