To think that 5/6 year old little girls don’t need to wear shorts under dresses to “protect their modesty”

[Darthwazette]

Just what the subject like says really. I’d be interested to know other parents thoughts. I’m not a weirdo, this request has been made of my daughters from school and it makes me feel a bit icky.

When I see our local pre teen and teen Academy girls walking home from school for sure they don’t wear shorts under their skirts and my goodness me, there’s no modesty there.

As a teen of the sixties those skirts were often referred to as pubic pelmets!

My own child could wear this to school but she chooses to wear a dress with shorts. She likes how the dress looks and feels.

Depends I suppose. My daughter’s school dresses are long, to her knees so I wouldn’t use them then but I do put her in shorts in some of her shorter dresses though that’s because it’s looks better rather than a modesty issue. She does insist on doing handstands all the bloody time though, it drives me insane.

Tricky but I don’t think this falls into the same category of other sexist ‘dress codes’ (like skirts to the knee so as not to distract boys 🤔).

knickers move and kids do handstands. No one needs to see that. I’m not sure why they can’t all wear shorts if they’d rather though?

I think there’s nothing wrong in encouraging modesty in both sexes. I don’t allow my dd to wear crop tops or my ds to go around topless because I don’t think it’s modest. I would also suggest shorts under a skirt so that girls are free to play without showing their pants. I just see it as teaching them the social norm that we don’t show our underwear in public.

OP, I can see your point as to why you are annoyed. In your position I would be also. However, cycling shorts/gym knickers or just decent boy style pants are fairly practical. At my son's school, they have an outdoor forest school and have now introduced risk assessed tree climbing, so its eminently practical in those circumstances and most of the girls either wear shorts under their dresses or grey/black shorts like the boys. But yes, to your original point. . . I think the way your child's school has communicated things leaves a lot to be desired.

At my DSDs school, the girls aren't allowed to go on the play bars without shorts on because 'they will show their knickers to the boys' She's now 9 but it comes into force from Year 1 - I wasn't best pleased to begin with but in the end, opted for M&S PE cycling shorts under her summer dresses which means on PE days she's only got to put her white top on. This year though, she refused summer dresses and wanted a summer play suit which means she's not having to wear shorts under and quite a lot of the girls have them on this year.

My DP every year questions the school over this 'policy' and makes of point of saying firstly if the attentions not drawn to the knocker when they are doing cartwheels for example, it won't be an issues but equally more needs to be done around the boys mentality as opposed to making girls to blame for choosing to wear a dress. He gets quite annoyed every single year without fail

My dd school don’t ask but my dd does. She likes to put shorts under her summer dress/skirt as she doesn’t like flashing her knickers. If that’s what she wants to do then that what she wants to do

I mean, I like them and wear them, but dresses and skirts generally aren’t a very practical concept are they? Even for me with my sitting down office job, let alone someone who never sits still and wants to perform 75 dances to Let It Go every day. But my DD absolutely loves wearing dresses in summer and would hate if I only ever let her wear trousers or shorts and T-shirts. I put her in cycle shorts underneath because I think it’s comfier and more practical - it basically renders her dress a long, loose-fitting top, which is perfect for this weather.

Even in secondary schools girls often forget themselves and sit in weird ways with legs apart or knees out, especially in Year 7. So it makes sense to give them some privacy. Same as wouldn't let my boy out wearing loose boxer shorts and short shorts.

Also PSA if you think anyone can see your DD's vagina then you REALLY have a problem 😳

The use of the word modesty is awful, but I think the problem is backwards: why is girls' and women's underwear so skimpy and flimsy in the first place?

If we wore neat shorts, made from proper weight cotton, under our clothes from a young age (like boys do), this wouldn't even be an issue.

See also - gymnastics uniforms, swimwear etc. It's very creepy that girls and women are expected (or forced, in some cases, by regulations) to wear skimpy outfits for sports when boys and men aren't.

The misogyny is very deeply ingrained when you think about it.

@DataNotLore probably not the same across all schools, but our local primary and secondary school both have a “no shorts” rule. You’ve got the choice of trousers, dresses, skirts or those thick school trousers style shorts but DD and DS both say they’re very uncomfortable to move about in. DS chooses to swelter in trousers rather than wear them, DD puts a skirt on and a pair of very thin shorts under. Tbh it’s daft to me they’re not allowed thin plain shorts on in school colours.

I think the word modesty is a very loaded one and has religious connotations.

But school asked me to get shorts for DD in reception as she was - erm - displaying natural curiosity a bit too much. They're to keep her from fiddling more than to stop other people seeing! She still wears them, prevent any chub rub, nice bamboo material, never had a UTI.

What your teacher means is 'to stop the kids fiddling with their genitals all day and spreading various bacteria on every available surface'

You can get uniform summer jumpsuits in check material, shorts on the bottom instead of skirt.

Would all be solved if we just put all school children in trousers or shorts. I don't understand why dresses and skirts are even part of school uniform anymore. Same for ties and blazers.

Just get rid and stop cos-playing the 1950's

Substantial pants are surely the answer. My primary age daughter likes the ones with shorts style legs (kind of like hot pants). The M&S ones are great and don't slip out of place and are also nice thick cotton, not flimsy. I definitely don't think you need a second layer of covering if your knickers are up to the job. Just doesn't make sense that the "coverings need coverings". Outside school she always wears shorts or leggings anyway. The only dresses she wears are school dresses. She's a active girl and does sometimes "flash her knickers" accidentally but the knickers cover everything that is private so ....

Good point.

Hmm this conversation is very pertinent in my house right now as DD (6) is completely obsessed with monkey bars at the moment. Pretty sure she spends all playtime on them and a lot of time spent hanging upside down. She likes wearing summer dresses, and I prefer this too as just one item (plus knickers and socks) makes life very easy!

I have asked her if she would like to wear shorts under her dress and she said no. I didn’t want to push it on her. I don’t really like the play suits and I don’t think she would want to wear those either. I had wondered about the PANTS thing - should I be saying to her that no one should see her knickers? Because they definitely are seeing her knickers! Maybe I will get the short style knickers but I myself find that they ride up into the bum area and are therefore not very comfortable.

Personally I don’t think anyone needs to wear them .. those who do are just promoting bigotry by believing boys can’t control themselves. I never did and never will promote that to my girls

Also another good reason for older teenagers and women to wear shorts under their skirts or dresses - the rise in “upskirting” is rather sickening and very little is done about it.

So they can cartwheel and not show everything as well as it being more comfortable to sit cross legged.

Don’t get hung up on the term modesty. It’s pretty obvious what they mean which is not that it’s immodest to catch a glimpse of knicker but rather that sometimes knickers don’t adequately cover their vulva/bum when they’re being active. I always put 6YO DD in shorts for this reason. It’s no big deal and certainly better than telling her to sit with her legs together like my mother used to say!

Boys and teachers should not be looking in the direction of young girls private regions. Are you insane?

They shouldn't have to no, but I always put them on my daughters because you never know when a dirty perv might be watching them do cartwheels.....

What modesty? They're a child. Not sure why people put this language onto children. I ran wild and naked as a kid. I have a very happy and accepting view of my body.

my dd was told off by a Y6 boy for not wearing shorts when she was in Y1 mid cartwheel.

cue embarrassment from her and insistence on shorts after that.

Personally think it's OTT? She's only doing a cartwheel for a few seconds and had perfectly decent underwear on. To make her believe there is something immodest that needed covering up (age 5!!!!) was daft. What are we doing to our girls?

Same dd age 13 was under huge pressure to conform at school so wore skirt as short as possible. To not do so provoked ridicule. Absolutely no chance of getting a pair of shorts under there I can tell you.

Also - who on earth is the poster who says they wear cycling shorts under a dress as an adult? Has the world gone properly mad?