To think that 5/6 year old little girls don’t need to wear shorts under dresses to “protect their modesty”

[Darthwazette]

Just what the subject like says really. I’d be interested to know other parents thoughts. I’m not a weirdo, this request has been made of my daughters from school and it makes me feel a bit icky.

Yes, I used to cover myself when sitting down because pulling my dress up to purposely show my knickers would be weird. Don't know about when I was little. But I know in juniors you automatically arrange your clothes to not show off underwear. But when kids do cartwheels they're not purposely showing their knickers - it just happens for a few seconds and I don't think that's an issue. I don't think it's an issue really if little girls are showing off their knickers accidentally while sitting on the carpet but my point there was that if privates are on display when girls do that that's easily solved by buying the more traditional summer dresses and ensuring knickers fit properly.

I'm supporting my primary age child telling me she would like to wear shorts under her dress (a dress she has chosen to wear). Would it be better for her if I refuse and tell her that she has no choice in this?

This is bizarre! Maybe 10 years ago, any talk of modesty in clothing was assumed to be backwards, religious and fanatical. Lots of horror expressed that conservative Christian girls were all going to get thrush from wearing Lycra shorts in hot weather. Lots of anger pointing out that we shouldn’t make girls feel responsible for the actions of others because of their clothing choices, that the onus is on the men (usually) to behave appropriately in the first place. I can’t fathom how it’s now become mainstream and expected. They’re just little kids at primary school. Let them be innocent while they still can

Agreed.

If the underwear is so inadequate then buy proper underwear, boxer style. What is the point of inadequate underwear, then shorts over the underwear? What happens when seeing the shorts becomes "immodest"? Longer shorts over the shorts that are over the knickers? Ridiculous.

Do you send your son into school in his boxers? Does he wear a skirt, do handstands in it and flash his briefs? Would other children laugh at him if his trousers fell down and they could see said briefs?

It's not about females being told to cover up - it's parents being told to cover up their children's pants but girls are the ones whose uniform does not do that, so therein lies your problem.

To me it’s a simple “your underwear isn’t for public to see” safeguarding message. Nobody needs to show their underwear when playing and if children are taught that rule sensibly they understand as they get older about what is and isn’t acceptable.

when Ds was in year 2 another child dared him to pull his trousers down. I didn’t say “oh that’s ok because you had underpants on” it was inappropriate behaviour.

My DD doesn't wear a dress through any gender conditioning - she has worn a skirt or dress to school every day for 5 years except on PE days because she really dislikes the buttons/waistbands of formal trousers and shorts and finds them a pain when going to the loo. I have bought them and offered them many times but she prefers the dresses. I myself prefer skirts and dresses - they're much more comfortable to wear and partner and male friends have often wished they had the variety of summer clothes women do due to the coolness and comfort of a loose dress.

She wouldn't feel less embarrassed to show "better" underwear (where is this mythical wonderfully-fitted underwear? Not M&S or anywhere affordable, for sure) and would never agree to boy-short style undies (again, have been offered many times). Girls have their own opinions on clothes and what they want other people to see! She LOVES to wear the cycling shorts under her dress. It's liberating for her because it really gives her complete freedom of movement. Trust me, if they were too hot or irritating I'd hear about it!

You're quite right. Fine if the child chooses it herself, not fine for someone else to request it on her behalf.

What a lot of fuss over children’s underwear.

Private parts are private, pants are just pants. Buy proper fitting underwear and stop giving children a complex over an item of clothing that we all wear.

Question to those who put their dd in shorts - do you not let your dd wear a swimsuit at the pool or the beach? What’s the difference? Do you not worry about paedophiles hanging around?

I agree!

And I don't know about you, but I hate sitting down and feeling the surface of a wooden chair (or a seat on a bus or train....) on my bum etc. Especially when it was hot in summer and I was sweaty from running /playing etc.

Which would happen all the time unless I was really careful about sitting down properly etc.

Shorts also allow girls to slide down monkey bars, slides etc. So much easier if you don't have to constantly worry about showing your bum or getting stuck to something due to friction!

A skirt/dress can be a genuine issue in regards to play and exercise. And I'm not too fond of restricting little girls via their clothing.

I therefore do believe shorts should be strongly encouraged, yes.

A dress I would consider optional. Shorts and a shirt should be perfectly fine as well...

It's just a polite gesture to wear shorts underneath and protect their modesty.

This is a truly ridiculous view to hold.

This, and your previous reply are starting to verge on racism, and/or bigotry.

I put boxer shorts on DD with dresses, the boys ones. Just gives abit more privacy without the double layering. She’s 3 so can take a while to get everything down to go the toilet

Absolute this. ‘A polite gesture’ is holding the door open for someone, not putting your DC in shorts. Bizarre.

I wouldn't be seen dead in trousers until I was about 11 years old and my mum could barely get me to put on a pair of shorts. I always wore skirts and dresses, the more pink and twirly the better, and played football, cricket, rode my bike, skated and slid down slides in them, did handstands and cartwheels without any restriction of movement or worry about anyone looking at my underwear.

I could never do monkey bars though - am too long and solid. I don't think wearing shorts would have helped.

I would be happy to wear my swimming costume at the pool/the beach. I wouldn't be happy to accidentally flash my knickers at work when playing/cartwheeling (OK not a lot of cartwheeling at work, but you see what I mean).
For me it's not about other adults being inappropriate. It's about helping my child have the ability to play without exposing her underwear or what's underneath.
The only pants that we have managed to buy that don't gape are H&M boxer shorts and the other options readily and affordably available for her are all "knickers" which gape as she's petite. Someone on here suggested Boden knickers - I can assure you we are not in the same tax bracket!
If she told me she didn't want to wear the shorts, then fine. In the same way that as she doesn't want to wear trousers or shorts to school, I don't make her.
Also I wear cycling shorts under dresses. Mostly to stop the chub rub though (I'll have to leave Mumsnet now for outing myself as a fatty, we're not allowed here).

I think it is icky but most of the girls I know actually want to wear the cycling shorts under their dresses. I'd say about 90% of girls at my daughter's school where those skort style dresses these days anyway, which seem much more practical.

My DM's skirt was so short in the 1960s that she had matching knickers.

You dont really mean a "vagina", do you. How the heck would you see that??

Girls and boys used to do PE in their pants - just saying this for those fools who put this down to something other than what it is - telling girls and women to cover up and that their bodies are offensive and that they ought to be modest or they'll arouse a male and compromise their honour. It is a new issue that hasn't existed in your generation, or mine or our grandparents and greatgrandparents. You know very well who and what brings those influences here.

US culture? They've always been a bit less relaxed about nudity/modesty.

It's all about training girls that they are responsible for men's behaviour.

I'd say no I think. I work in a secondary sch where some girls have decided it is ok.to wear a short skirt because they have shorts underneath- skirt is too short
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It’s a good idea. all the kids tend to sit cross legged in assembly etc and knickers don’t cover much. My little girl always worse shorts under her school dresses unless wearing tights.

Girls boxer briefs:
Next
H&M
ASDA
Amazon
Primark

They are not hard to find. They are underwear, they do not reveal private parts and they do not need to be covered with another pair of shorts.

It's not about flashing their pants. Young girls' knickers don't always cover up what they're meant to cover up. An ill fitting gusset leaves little to the imagination when your daughters are hanging on the bars in the playground, cartwheeling or even sitting legs akimbo on the floor / chairs in class.

M&S do decent old fashioned girls knickers with a high rise and a decent amount of elastic that goes all the way around the leg holes. Bikini style supermarket / Primark briefs are not so good.