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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To expect to be able to take my annual leave after mat leave?

104 replies

Birminghambabe · 12/06/2023 12:19

AIBU or is my employer?

I’ve been working with current employer for around 4 years. I’m on maternity leave and due to return early December. As far as I’m aware because my friends have told me and what I’ve read online is that I accrue my holiday days whilst on mat leave and can take them before or after mat leave.

I was sick around 32 weeks with HG so went on sick leave then early mat and my boss said I couldn’t use my annual leave then, so when I asked if I could just use it after and return in Jan they said no as I can’t carry over as per my contract. Surely as I’m on mat leave that overalls? The contract just says I’m allowed 22 days plus bank holidays per year Jan - dec.

I like my employer but at the same time I think they’re incorrect and it’s a lot of holiday (extra time off with baby) and money.

AIBU? Or are they

OP posts:
fitzwilliamdarcy · 14/06/2023 22:36

@AscensionToCheese Yes, public sector! I can see why too!

VivaLesTartes · 14/06/2023 22:45

I don't know if this is standard everywhere: I took my remaining holiday as my "start" of mat leave. My employer said if I happened to have baby in that time they would just tag it on the end instead - this would be a new holiday year so effectively carrying it over.

TopMog · 14/06/2023 22:58

Are you a member of a Trade Union for your industry? If so, speak to your Union without delay.

If not, I suggest you join one ASAP!

Palmasailor · 15/06/2023 04:44

My accountant told me this - I had to pay out leave which wasn’t taken in cash at year end to my employees.

So they got cash in lieu and the leave was zeroed out and not carried over.

Original poster
Birminghambabe · 15/06/2023 08:35

Thank you everyone for your comments! Unfortunately my boss has gone off to Portugal so he wasn’t available when I called him but he’s back on Monday so I’ll speak to him then. I’ve also spoken to citizen advice and they said yes I can carry them over.

Also @AbraKedavra wether you agree or do not agree, the law is the law. If I know I’m entitled to holiday leave which is worth extra time with my baby and around 2K of course I’m going to take it!

If the law was, if you’re not at work because you’re on mat leave then you can’t accrue holidays then I would accept that and not fight it. But I know my boss is incorrect so I can’t afford to miss out on an extra month off with my baby and the money I’m entitled too

OP posts:
Alwaytired44 · 15/06/2023 09:25

If your boss said you couldn’t use your annual leave BEFORE Mat leave then it would be both unreasonable and unlawful for them to not allow you to a) carry it over or b) pay you for the leave you wasn’t allowed to take.

Tell them you’ve sought legal advice (I’m a Solicitor) and you know your rights!

Good Luck!

MooMooSharoo · 15/06/2023 10:41

I'm an employer in a small business. Maternity leave for staff does cost us. We can only reclaim 92% of any SMP paid and that employee's work has to be covered in their absence, so that's either through temps or paying others overtime.

They continue to accrue annual leave and most usually tag it to the beginning or end of their mat leave, to either extend their time off, or be paid more than they would on SMP.

Does it inconvenience us? Yes
Does it cost us money? Yes
Does it stop us employing women? Of course not. Out of 17 staff, 11 are women and 7 are of child bearing age (including me!).

Do I hope that none of my staff go on mat leave? Sometimes! But I'm pleased for them if they do.

My head says "this is a pain", but my heart says "aw, cute! babies!"

Rules are rules at the end of the day and have been put in place as a reaction to some very bad employers treating their staff badly.

AbraKedavra · 15/06/2023 12:36

"Does it stop us employing women? Of course not. Out of 17 staff, 11 are women and 7 are of child bearing age (including me!)."

I would say the bolded is key. It absolutely stops others from employing women. Not overtly of course, as that's discrimination. But it happens. Plenty.

MooMooSharoo · 15/06/2023 13:23

AbraKedavra · 15/06/2023 12:36

"Does it stop us employing women? Of course not. Out of 17 staff, 11 are women and 7 are of child bearing age (including me!)."

I would say the bolded is key. It absolutely stops others from employing women. Not overtly of course, as that's discrimination. But it happens. Plenty.

I have no doubt it does. It shouldn't, but it does. An old boss of mine (many years ago) made a comment to me (a woman of child bearing age that he'd not long previously employed) about preferring not to employ women of child bearing age! I was very 😲and he realised what he'd said.

For small businesses, I do understand the burden it can cause and so some business do, whether consciously or unconsciously, choose staff that are unlikely to have children.

As an employer I accept that it's OK for me to think "they may go off on mat leave", but it's not OK for me to add "...so I won't employ them" to that thought process.

I'd say that we need more women involved to improve the attitude towards employing mothers (potential or actual), but this thread has proven that in some cases both men and women can think rules surrounding maternity are OTT!

MrsLilaAmes · 15/06/2023 13:35

AbraKedavra · 15/06/2023 12:36

"Does it stop us employing women? Of course not. Out of 17 staff, 11 are women and 7 are of child bearing age (including me!)."

I would say the bolded is key. It absolutely stops others from employing women. Not overtly of course, as that's discrimination. But it happens. Plenty.

What do you think is the solution to that covert discrimination?

Is it for the party being discriminated against to lay down and say 'I give up all my rights!' and wait on the mercy of this or that business owner or the nebulous market forces? We tried that in the past. There were some decent business owners, often religiously motivated - Arkwright, Cadbury, but on the whole a lot of misery all around.

I think you know that the only way to have your rights honoured is to stand up for them.

ItsTooEarlyForThis · 15/06/2023 13:50

So I do feel there is more information needed here - PPs are correct that holiday is accrued on maternity leave and that you are entitled to it.
BUT from what you have said, I think the holiday you are querying is from the holiday year BEFORE your maternity leave started?
So it would likely depend on what date your sick leave started, what date your maternity leave started and what your EWC was.
What was the original plan for using your 2022 holiday? Did you use any of it?
If you worked through the entire year up to December and hadn’t used any then went off sick then potentially your employer may not allow you to carry it over if your maternity leave didn’t start until January.
It will also depend on the company policy for carrying over holidays - once more for those at the back : IF your maternity leave started in the NEXT holiday year.

Eleganz · 15/06/2023 14:01

AbraKedavra · 15/06/2023 12:36

"Does it stop us employing women? Of course not. Out of 17 staff, 11 are women and 7 are of child bearing age (including me!)."

I would say the bolded is key. It absolutely stops others from employing women. Not overtly of course, as that's discrimination. But it happens. Plenty.

Businesses have been discriminating against women far longer than they have had the maternity rights they now do have. Therefore there is no evidence at all that reducing those rights would help reduce discrimination.

What we need is to make reforms to the shared parental leave policies in this country to make them more effective and more widely taken up. We also need to look at why pay gaps still exist for between women who have not had children and men. One of the reasons many couples cite for not using shared parental leave is because the man earns more - yet for first time mothers this can't be explained away by time spent out of the workforce.

Original poster
Birminghambabe · 15/06/2023 14:53

@ItsTooEarlyForThis I only started Mat leave last month
Sick started a couple of months ago so it’s my holiday from this year 2023 and bank holidays that I’m querying

OP posts:
Original poster
Birminghambabe · 15/06/2023 14:58

@MooMooSharoo There is only about 7 of us that work here I can imagine it can be hard on small businesses when employees go off on mat leave! I can imagine you are happy for them but at the same time inner thoughts are “oh man!”

OP posts:
Original poster
Birminghambabe · 15/06/2023 15:02

Just to let everyone know one of my colleagues messaged me earlier to say boss called in and she mentioned I phoned for him and he said he looked into it and yes I can carry my dates over - that he apologises and wasn’t aware as it’s all new to him. So all sorted

OP posts:
wingingit1987 · 15/06/2023 15:36

I have had 5 lots of maternity leave and have always been able to carry annual leave over.

MrsLilaAmes · 15/06/2023 15:36

That’s great news OP- enjoy the rest of your leave 😊

Sleepytiredyawn · 15/06/2023 18:01

My holidays run from January to December. I started my maternity leave in January, I added 4 weeks onto my mat leave at the end and returned to work in the November with my first pregnancy.

With my second pregnancy, I finished work at the end of September 2021, I added 3 weeks leave before my mat leave kicked in and when I returned to work in 2022, I added 3 weeks leave from what I’d accrued onto the end of my mat leave, I also added 3 weeks unpaid leave as it was the 6 week school hols. You’re allowed to carry your holidays over if there’s no time to take them so they are wrong. If they prefer you take them at a different time then that is allowed too but you are entitled to the holidays.

I did work out everything before my leave started and told them with plenty of notice.

Ring ACAS if you’re unsure, then I would speak to your Employer and tell them your findings, if they’re still adamant you’re not entitled, say you would like this in writing.

Hmm1234 · 15/06/2023 18:07

Legally you can.
print off something from the ACAS or GOV. Uk website and show your manager

purplebunny2012 · 15/06/2023 18:23

They are breaking the law. The no carrying over does not apply when it's been accrued during mat leave

Caelan2018 · 15/06/2023 18:26

Everywhere has their own policies I know in Ireland you have to go Bach to work for one month before you can take annual leave but we have 6 weeks unpaid paternal leave after maternity leave here

pollymere · 15/06/2023 19:19

I went on 12 months Mat leave followed by my accrued 25 days annual leave. I think it was easier to cover this way. Of course you don't lose it. It's a bit like sick leave and them not being allowed to do anything with Annual Leave whilst you're sick.

Ironically I then went on Garden Leave for six months 😂. My colleagues didn't know and had work I could've done...

csigeek · 15/06/2023 20:09

You accrue it, you can’t lose it. But you are not entitled to tag it to the end of your mat leave. You can ask, they can say no.
you can reduce your Mat leave and use the holiday instead.

purplebunny2012 · 15/06/2023 20:15

csigeek · 15/06/2023 20:09

You accrue it, you can’t lose it. But you are not entitled to tag it to the end of your mat leave. You can ask, they can say no.
you can reduce your Mat leave and use the holiday instead.

That's incorrect, you're entitled to use your full maternity leave as maternity leave. You do not need to reduce it to use annual leave

elkiedee · 15/06/2023 20:29

@Birminghambabe
Thanks for sharing your good news - I hope you can now enjoy the rest of your maternity leave and maybe explore your area with the baby - my babies are teenagers now but I remember seeing so much I hadn't even noticed before when they were little.

On the maternity leave debate, I think some of the pro-employer posts on here sound very "entitled".