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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think concert cancelling has become far too prevalent

281 replies

MXVIT · 08/06/2023 13:41

and I think its a terrible precedent to have been set

I am probably just an unfeeling wench but I think it is dreadful how easy this has become to do, Lewis Capaldi taking three weeks off to be "Lewis from Glasgow" again bascially saying "I know you've forked out on hotels and travel, and thanks, but sorry"

For me it just shows a huge disrespect to fans. When you're a rich and famous star (all from the hard earned money from your fans) and all of the luxury that that life affords - you don't get to turn it on and off, and I'm sorry, but you don't get to put yourself first 100% of the time. Thats the trade off.

I would never buy tickets to concerts again after the spate of this happening. Adele, Sam Smith, Lewis etc.

AIBU ?

OP posts:
wildfirewonder · 10/06/2023 08:46

Dartmoorcheffy · 08/06/2023 13:50

Completely agree. And it is always the snowflake generation too. Considering the astronomical cost of tickets these days too it's extremely selfish behaviour that shows no respect to the fans who have enabled them to get where they are.

Yawn at 'snowflake generation'.

Was it better when performers ploughed on through substance abuse, or performance-exacerbated anorexia like Karen Carpenter, or shot themselves in the head?

Shock horror that a performer should say 'It would be detrimental to my health to carry on with this'.

Kazzyhoward · 10/06/2023 09:01

aSofaNearYou · 10/06/2023 08:41

Artists basically sign away their souls in a lot of ways to get a record deal, it often results in them being in a shitty position.

Yes, but no one holds a gun to their heads, do they?

They have the option to negotiate a different deal, different record company, etc.

Perhaps they need better advisors, managers, lawyers, etc., so that they don't sign deals they don't understand? From what I've read over the years, far too many use parents, brothers, husbands/wives, boyfriends as their "manager" - people who have little or no experience in management - it's no surprise they get stung into poor contracts, unrealistic working obligations, etc. But on the flip side, some "professional" managers are nothing but leeches and don't have their clients' best interests at heart either! Either way, perhaps the artists themselves need to show more interest in contract negotiations rather than leaving it up to amateurs who don't know what they're doing or professionals who are as keen to milk the artist as the record company!

aSofaNearYou · 10/06/2023 09:09

@Kazzyhoward well, yes, you've listed yourself some of the reasons people end up in bad contracts. Artists are usually individual young people without business experience, who have very little leverage as they need a record deal to achieve their dreams and there are hundreds of other talented artists who could take their place. They're negotiating with huge companies. I don't think it's lack of engagement that leads to a bad deal, I don't think it's surprising that's the position they end up in.

Seasonofthewitch83 · 10/06/2023 09:34

Record companies have nothing to do with touring.

Management and agents and promoters do.

melj1213 · 10/06/2023 09:38

Merrymermaid7 · 10/06/2023 00:04

That may have been his words but it was time off for his mental health, have you seen his documentary? He was unable not unwilling to perform and needed to take time out. It is very unfortunate that people miss out and may lose money but health trumps everything. I have had concerts I've booked cancelled due to covid and lost lots of money on travel, can't be helped. If you are a fan try to be compassionate and empathize

Nobody is saying he shouldn't take time out if he needs it, what people are saying is that a) his mental health should be taken into account when scheduling his shows and appearances because, unlike a freak leg break accident, someone with diagnosed mental health and medical issues knows about them beforehand and therefore should be taking them into consideration during the planning stages of the tour, not just cancelling mid-tour and b) if he does need to take time out there is a way to announce it without alienating people who have paid for tickets by essentially saying "Sorry I can't make the gigs that my fans have paid to see me at, I want to focus on Glastonbury where I'm not even headlining"

Both of those things should be handled properly by his management.

The tour schedule should have been made taking his medical info into account - just looking at the tour schedule as a lay person it is a lot, of both performing and travelling. As someone with anxiety there is no way I could manage all the stress and pressure of that schedule, so why was nobody in his management team highlighting this and trying to work in places where he can have a break or ease the pressure?

It is far easier to set a schedule where you do fewer gigs but leave room for either rest breaks or adding in extra dates (even if they are small "secret gigs" done in more intimate venues) than schedule that you are more than likely going to cancel half of. Or even just streamlining the tour schedule to minimise the stress of the travelling etc.

I remember in my student days there would often be big bands doing "secret gigs" during their tours - ie smaller venues where tickets went on sale a few days/hours before the gig - when they were on tour, so my friends and I would always look for where there were a few days break in a tour schedule, especially if they were coming to one of the cities nearby, and keep an eye out for secret gig tickets on one of those dates. We got to see so many great bands that way for much less than a full gig ticket would have cost. It didn't cost a lot to put those shows on as it was often just a pared down show - the band, instruments, a stage and a hall, no fancy lighting or pyrotechnics etc - and the venues got more in the way of publicity than payment (especially if they started getting a rep for always getting secret gigs when big stars were in town)

As for the actual announcement, there are much better ways to word a cancellation announcement that don't make it sound like he just wants to prioritise one event over another because of its prestige - everyone wants to perform at Glastonbury but that doesn't mean you have to tell everyone that you're going to sacrifice them to make that happen.

Again, management should be stepping in to advise him on what not to say - he doesn't have to talk about his mental health or go into any great detail but it was specifically highlighting Glastonbury that was the issue for many, so all he needed to do was say "I need to take a break, so I'm cancelling everything until at least the end of the month to give me some time to recover. The tour and the schedule is just too much for me and I feel like I'm not at my best. I don't want to do that to my fans so I'd rather disappoint people by cancelling and rescheduling for when I'm feeling better than disappoint people because of the sub par performance they would get otherwise".

Then he could have either added something like "I'm hoping to make it to Glastonbury at the end of the month but I'll update you with a decision once I've had some time away to focus on recovering," or just left Glastonbury off the post altogether and made a separate one a few days/weeks later to announce that he was feeling better after taking time out and was aiming to have Glastonbury as his return performance.

Florenz · 10/06/2023 10:41

How is he going to sell tickets in the future? No-one will have any faith that the concerts will actually take place. Certainly no-one will want to book trains/hotels/annual leave etc in advance, so he'll be relying far more on locals.

5555L · 10/06/2023 11:42

I am half and half, if it’s cancelled for reasons like genuine illness I.e Pete Doherty had a chest infection and then carried on with the tour when he was better (you could tell in his voice he was genuinely ill before, but sounded amazing then it’s understandable for short notice. If it’s mental health they should take a step back and stop with touring otherwise it’ll end up being the same story as Avicii where management etc push them to the point of suicide, they should try and push back on management before it gets too far and just not agree to the tours or understand their limits. It’s not right to push on with ticket sales if they understand that they might not be able to do it because of mental health.

Kazzyhoward · 10/06/2023 12:37

aSofaNearYou · 10/06/2023 09:09

@Kazzyhoward well, yes, you've listed yourself some of the reasons people end up in bad contracts. Artists are usually individual young people without business experience, who have very little leverage as they need a record deal to achieve their dreams and there are hundreds of other talented artists who could take their place. They're negotiating with huge companies. I don't think it's lack of engagement that leads to a bad deal, I don't think it's surprising that's the position they end up in.

Yes, but it's the same with any employment contract, setting up business/self employment, even leasing a property or getting a car on hire purchase. Young people of whatever occupation/talent seem very poor at asking for advice, reading/understanding contracts, etc. Obviously a recording contract (like, say, a first professional contract for a footballer), is a huge thing, but people need to take it seriously, learn to negotiate, learn to say "no", get professional advice before signing, etc.

I was reading an auto biography of a female pop star a few months ago. In her first film (musical based), the director glibly said "and in act xxx you strip down to your underwear) and she just said no! The filming carried on with her fully dressed! Years later, she realised she was being conned as part of a recording contract and she insisted on meeting the MD of the recording company in person to argue her case, which she did and which led to a court case that changed future contracts for other artists. Then a few years later, she took another recording company to court for not paying the full royalties (she worked out what they should be based on published sales stats and realised she wasn't being paid enough). All that was down to her, not her "managers" who'd been her boyfriends at various points in time!

There are so many leeches out there, and young people in particular are far too easy to get conned because they don't have the confidence to question things, negotiate, nor get proper professional advice to advocate for them.

Brefugee · 10/06/2023 13:06

Quinoawoman · 09/06/2023 18:23

It's shit, but at the end of the day you don't want your favourite singer being seriously unwell due to being overworked. Since when did people start believing they own these performers or have a right to demand their presence?

Just for info - I had tickets for a Foo Fighters gig which was cancelled b/c Dave Ghrol broke his leg. It was shit, but there you go, that's life. I don't want him performing in pain.

and yet he cancelled the minimum number of gigs and performed sitting down with his leg in a cast

not the best example

and yes: lots of priveledge talking with the "well don't book non-refundable travel/hotels" not fantastic when some gigs are literally cancelled while people are entering the venue, or on the day.

Brefugee · 10/06/2023 13:11

Florenz · 10/06/2023 10:41

How is he going to sell tickets in the future? No-one will have any faith that the concerts will actually take place. Certainly no-one will want to book trains/hotels/annual leave etc in advance, so he'll be relying far more on locals.

yepp, i like Capaldi and would have booked tickets if he was close to me - but i won't be bothering now, if he resumes touring. Too flakey.

aSofaNearYou · 10/06/2023 13:16

@Kazzyhoward I get what you're saying - I don't feel particularly business savvy myself so I get it. I'm just saying I'm not surprised artists don't have a lot of power in negotiation - record labels have them over a barrel and they know it. It's a highly coveted and competitive industry where many people don't make it and if they wanted to find somebody else willing to sign away their soul to replace you, they easily could.

Florenz · 10/06/2023 13:25

At the end of the day, people need to fulfil obligations they have agreed to. If they fail to do this, you can't trust them from that point onwards.

Brefugee · 10/06/2023 13:33

Capaldi has a famous relative though - he won't be one of the young starving artists with no clout or knowledge of how the entertainment industry works.

Also we are all now much more aware of a) mental health issues and b) that the entertainment (particularly music) is abusive and exploitative.

We also know, due to the documentary, that Capaldi has a serious mental health condition that is exacerbated by the schedule of the performances as well as the actual stress of performing. So really, why does he do it? It makes no sense to be aware enough that you have tourettes, and that performing is stressful, to be in the industry. We can't all make a living doing what we want, but he could compromise and record. And then perform smaller one off gigs - he's not Iron Maiden or Muse touring around with 15 trucks and all that involves, is he?

What i would want is a bit of self awareness on the part of the artist, and that the music industry gets its house in order.

@Kazzyhoward I'm interested to know what book it was you read, i love a good music industry memoir

Mrsjayy · 10/06/2023 13:41

Peter capaldi is Lewis capaldis 3rd cousin or something he's hardly a nepo baby. His mum and dad are just ordinary people!

Brefugee · 10/06/2023 13:54

I haven't suggested he's a nepo baby. But he does have a famous relative in the entertainment biz, he could ask his relative for tips on how to handle this? Peter Capaldi has done work on stage, i think?

How best to handle cancelling gigs would deffo be a conversation I'd want with a family member in the biz.

Achwheesht · 10/06/2023 14:54

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Achwheesht · 10/06/2023 14:56

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Macaboom · 10/06/2023 15:14

I think he has a great online persona and his music isn't my taste but he's clearly very talented. Perhaps rather than a gruelling live tour he could monetise via other avenues if he's keen on his focus being on making money if he's struggling?

Mrsjayy · 10/06/2023 17:09

Brefugee · 10/06/2023 13:54

I haven't suggested he's a nepo baby. But he does have a famous relative in the entertainment biz, he could ask his relative for tips on how to handle this? Peter Capaldi has done work on stage, i think?

How best to handle cancelling gigs would deffo be a conversation I'd want with a family member in the biz.

What have a 50+ actor and a 20 odd year .old singer got in common what "biz" are you on about it's totally different genres.

Tooearlytothink · 10/06/2023 18:30

I think you’re taking the ‘be Lewis from Glasgow’ a bit too literally. If you’ve watched his documentary or heard him interviewed you’ll know he suffers from Tourettes and anxiety. Like any of the rest of us, he can commit to things without fully appreciating how his health might change & impact his ability to deal with it. Like many people with mental health issues do (in part because of lack of empathy & understanding demonstrated here), they’ve probably underplayed the situation. Everyone is #bekind until it puts them out & suddenly people should just be soldiering on regardless to avoid putting you out.

melj1213 · 10/06/2023 19:35

Tooearlytothink · 10/06/2023 18:30

I think you’re taking the ‘be Lewis from Glasgow’ a bit too literally. If you’ve watched his documentary or heard him interviewed you’ll know he suffers from Tourettes and anxiety. Like any of the rest of us, he can commit to things without fully appreciating how his health might change & impact his ability to deal with it. Like many people with mental health issues do (in part because of lack of empathy & understanding demonstrated here), they’ve probably underplayed the situation. Everyone is #bekind until it puts them out & suddenly people should just be soldiering on regardless to avoid putting you out.

I have diagnosed anxiety that I have been medicated for for years so I am speaking from experience of thinking I can take on the world and then on the day I need all my energy just to get out of bed ... Even I can see from the tour schedule that it is a lot, and is going to require a lot of mental and physical strength to get through without at least flagging at points, and that's without anxiety and tourettes on top of that.

This is where his management should be stepping in - even if he feels capable of taking on the world, they should have the foresight to plan in contingencies to minimise the struggle and stress wherever possible, including not packing his schedule so full. Even if he agrees to it, or wants to do it, they should be stepping in at the planning stage to say "no, it's too much in too short a time frame, instead of doing XYZ, ABC and DEF and Glastonbury in June you need to drop one of them, which one do you want to drop?" And then only continue with planning the remaining events as opposed to them all. If, closer to the time, he has a free week and he's feeling fine they can schedule in a secret gig or a couple of pop up events etc that fans will see as positive perks but if not then they already have the down time scheduled in and nobody is left disappointed or out of pocket.

Mummyoftwoooo · 11/06/2023 00:54

I can see if from both sides. Yes they booked their tour so they should fulfil the dates but if they feel that they are letting their fans down by not being 100% or their mental health is at risk then I absolutely understand. I got tickets for Celine Dion in 2020 and it was rescheduled due to covid 3 times and now it’s been cancelled indefinitely and I’ve been refunded as she is too unwell to tour currently. I hate to say it but I don’t think she will tour again but her health ultimately is more important and I understand that. Some stars are too quick to cancel but if it’s genuine then it’s understandable.

IndigoLaFaye · 11/06/2023 17:55

MXVIT · 08/06/2023 13:55

I really am unfeeling because my natural response to "lewis is vulnerable, prone to this" etc is - simple solution to that, quit, which I would say to anyone not cut out for what theyre doing. - and forgo all the luxuries and privilege it affords.

That’s an incredibly ableist thing to say.

It’s his managers (or whoever) responsibility to plan his tour at a pace he can manage.

It won’t have been cancelled lightly, at the end of the day, he is reliant on the good will and money of fans - who are now pissed off so if he felt he could do it then I’m sure he would have. The wording of his statement was a bit crap though.

forgotmyusername1 · 27/06/2023 07:53

I think now post Glastonbury it becomes clear why he had to cancel

I really feel for him. He had gone from pubs and clubs to massive arenas so fast and when it is your dream it must be so hard to say no.

I think he needs to do a Sia - record and release music but leave the touring and live performances as his mental health can't take it otherwise he may end up in a very bad way

Florenz · 27/06/2023 08:01

There's very little money in recording music nowadays, the money is made by touring.

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