Aaaaargh!!! Want to punch him…

[DepressedtodayshouldIbe]

want to, but won’t of course.

NC but been around a while. Pom Bear. Darked on washing. Mexican house thief.

Hoping to get some perspective on situation with DH. Together 18 years. Two DC primary age.

I got home today to find house in complete disarray. No tidying or cleaning done. I was p’d off and showed it. However, was very clear why I was annoyed - housework not done, broken promise, exhausted don’t want to have to do it myself. DH exploded. Was rude and belittling. I started it but I was driven to it…

DH does not see mess. He is chaotic - will leave stuff everywhere. When we met his house was awful. Couldn’t see the carpet as stuff everywhere. No cleaning got done other than washing up after cooking. Housemates that rented rooms would do it. My house, clean and organised most of the time. That’s important to me, always has been.

He asked if we could move in together. I said I’d love to (we are aligned in most other ways and share a lot of commonality) but I couldn’t live like he did. I said its one area I can’t and won’t compromise on. I am not obsessive but like it clean and tidy. He said great, I love your place and would rather live in a clean and tidy house, it’s nicer. New age man, has never suggested ‘that’s woman’s work’. In theory knows he should ‘pull his weight’.

We moved in, got married, bought a house and started a family.

Well, you can predict where this is going.

Over the years it has been a constant battle. On mat leave I did most of the cleaning. And before that. His view was always ‘I don’t care about it, you do’. I went back to work part time. Still did the bulk of it. He’d ‘help out’ when asked but I had all the mental load and did all the emotional labour. As well as most of the day to day domestic stuff. Visitors - cleaning and cooking mostly me. You get the idea.

I got burnt out - despite working part time, the nature of my job exhausts me. I was rock bottom. Crying weekly. Lots of arguments. He was working full time but at projects he hoped to (but didn’t) make money from.

So we had a talk and between us agreed on minimum standards - I thought that if it’s only me that wants it clean then it’s only fair we meet half way. Agreed (mutually) minimum standards, used Fair Play cards to divvy things up. Used TOM to try and limit time spent on cleaning but keep it to a decent standard. All agreed mutually and calmly. It got better. It was ok. I still did more but he upped his game.

We moved to be closer to family, it means a longer commute for me. I said I was concerned re commute as I already get exhausted by work (health problems) and I said I was worried the house would get chaotic. He promised he’d pick up the slack.

So. Tonight I couldn’t keep calm. I came home, not for the first week, and house is in chaos. I’m knackered after three long and gruelling days at work, providing financial stability for us all. He works less hours than me now (retrained). Is essentially a SAHP with a very part time job and occasional extra work when it comes in. He doesn’t work when I’m at work unless some extra work has come in - which is rare.

So. Was IU to get snippy and irritable? I
tried really hard to not say anything but just couldn’t hide the sense of ‘now I’ve got to spend my day tidying and cleaning, which means I can’t do the other things I want to do - sort the garden, put the winter clothes into storage, meet a friend for coffee etc). Of course I still could do those things but the deal was that we keep a tidy-ish house and I hate it when it’s not. It depresses me. I can’t relax properly when I can see everything that needs doing. He said I should wait to see if he does it by the end of the week before I moan but he knows I’ll do it because I don’t want to leave it (he wouldn’t have done it - would have done a bit).

argh. Sorry it’s so long. Don’t want to drip feed. AIBU or would you P’d off too?

To be clear, it’s rare he does all the cleaning and tidying we had agreed. Always leaves a bit at least. He will regularly do about 15% and sometimes gets up to around 80% but that’s rare. I’d be happy with a reliable 50% so I’m not expecting perfection.

You moved in with him knowing what he was like. I feel for you but he's not going to change. I suggest you consider living separately and staying together?

Of course youre not unreasonable. You were bloody stuipd marrying him though. He has always clearly thought cleaning is someone else’s job. And now he isnt even working properly?! Fuck that. He makes you unhappy. Get rid. Pr tell my im firmly you are very close to ending the marriage.

When we met his house was awful. Couldn’t see the carpet as stuff everywhere…Housemates that rented rooms would do it clearly shown here.

He said great, I love your place and would rather live in a clean and tidy house, it’s nicer. New age man, has never suggested ‘that’s woman’s work’. In theory knows he should ‘pull his weight
he said he would to to live in a clean and tidy house, not that he would clean and tidy a house.

You are lowering and lowering your standards to accommodate a man who doesn't respect you. Why?

Yeah. I was a bit naive for sure. He’s not a beer guzzling, arse scratching Neanderthal and made all the right noises about equality blah blah blah. He agrees it needs doing. Agrees he should do more than me. Understands it’s important to me. But he just doesn’t see it. Prioritises other things. Then says ‘but I’ve done all this!’ Proudly pointing to whatever random odd job he’s half way through…sigh.

Was I unreasonable to get snippy and snappy and show my disappointment? Is anger a reasonable response?

How would you feel/respond if you were my DH? Was his anger towards me justified? he was angry with me for being angry with him.

And, yes, I can hear that back and how effing ridiculous this all is!! I feel a bit unhinged! I just think it should go;

me - yes. We can move in together but you’ll have to up your cleaning game.
him - ok. I like that idea. It will be better for me.
me - you still haven’t upped your game and you said you would and I’m annoyed and knackered.
him - you are right. Sorry. I’ll do better.

Instead it’s;
me - you haven’t upped your game etc.
him - how dare you! I’ve done all this. You don’t appreciate what I do do. You are controlling etc etc

I'm not one to throw out random LTB. But I have been in similar shoes to yours. And I did ask him to leave. I couldn't cope with it. My DH also worked full time.

He did step up. He still doesn't do things to my (highly unrealistic) standards. But he does the important must do things on his days off.

I have also stepped back too. I don't pick up the slack. Noone noticed. So I began to wonder why I had bothered quite so much.

You lid a boundary and he flicked the Vs. you lowered that boundary and he's still flicking the Vs.

He's NEVER going to change. So you either accept the way it is or you live in different houses.

When you met his house was awful, you like a clean and tidy house. In 18 years since he agreed to Up His Game, with many different tactics employed, it's not happened. It's not happening, it's never going to.

I think it's understandable you got snippy, but it's absolutely futile. You're banging your head against a wall. You need to accept the fact that he's not going to pull his weight, and do what you want done yourself, or decide that you are not willing to live out the rest of your years in this way, which would mean two seperate living spaces.

Have you had couples counselling?

Waste of time.

I wouldn't just be pissed off I'd leave him.

What had he not done?

I'd absolutely hate living with someone like that and it would be a deal breaker for me. I'd find it really disrespectful that he couldn't be arsed to keep even a bog standard level of cleaning knowing I'd have to come home and do it all. Such an unattractive trait and frankly, really selfish. I'm sure he DOES love to live in a clean and tidy house, he just wants you to do it all for him like a lazy entitled slob. He's not going to keep his promises. It's up to you what you do with that.

He won't change. He was like this years ago and despite multiple promises he still is.

So..can you live with him doing nothing, including barely working, for the next twenty years? If not then you know what the answer is. My DH of 35 yrs is similar only he shut my anger up twenty years ago with his shouting and putting down, I'm now desperately trying to figure a way out, but you fortunately still have a job.

Thank you all.

It’s reassuring I’m not being unreasonable. I had started to wonder because of his anger.

Couples counselling helped a little. He heard what I was saying and how exhausted I was. I stopped ‘nagging’ and ‘not picking’ (aka trying to get the shit that needs doing done without me having to do it all).

What hadn’t he done?

In three days whilst DC in school he HAD half cleaned the bathroom. Done a couple of loads of washing. He also spent time doing stuff that doesn’t need doing. There was stuff left around and not tidied up in every room in the house. He also was able to sleep in compared to my VERY long days. He got to do his hobby for a few hours and go to the gym. I worked, travelled to work, ate and slept. I also did a couple of chores.

HadEnoughSoTired · Today 20:15

So sorry to hear that. 😔

Yanbu and I’m not surprised you’re angry. You’re justified and he can jog on turning it back in you and get angry in return. He knows he’s in the wrong. He’s being defensive and childish and can’t cope with the disappointment in himself, so is lashing out at you, making it your fault, instead of taking responsibility for himself.

if he doesn’t change, and step up, I’d be having a serious look at the relationship. He’s showing a complete lack of respect for you, living it up while you’re slaving away at work, exhaustion yourself, to earn enough money to support you both. Lazy, selfish man child cocklodger!

This is who he is. You’re not unreasonable to find it super disrespectful and upsetting that he cannot (and will not) do the minimum to ensure you don’t have to do extra.

That is what it boils down to essentially, he doesn’t actually care that he creates more work for you and detracts from your down time, meaning that you can’t even get any time off from the grunt work. He’s happy to see you burnt out and overworked whilst he does his hobby, goes to the gym and generally lives his best life working very part time hours (oh wouldnt we all love this).

If you don’t want to split up (and in your shoes I’d definitely be considering it as my vagina would have clamped shut and any love or affection would be well and truly drying up over this blatant disregard) then the compromise has to be HE works more hours and pays for a cleaner.

That only solves the practical aspect though, it doesn’t solve the issue that he just doesn’t give a fuck about your feelings around this.

Definitely not BU. You've discussed with him what you need, he's agreed and now is ignoring what you've discussed.
That shows a total lack of respect for you.
It looks like he thinks he can just pay lip service when you talk about it, to keep the peace, but in fact he's just doing things his way regardless. Because in his mind 'his way' is more comfortable for him. It doesn't sound like he wants to actually have an equal relationship where both adults pull their weight.
It's your decision whether you continue to put up with it

Aaah, the age old, "you're such a nag. And controlling. And don't even see that I did x!" Attack-as-a-defense strategy.

Someone told me that arguments about cleaning aren't about cleaning. They are about respect.

I suspect your resentment is not simply about the cleaning, it's about the fact that he doesn't seem to care enough about you to think, "she's working really hard and her days are long. I have had a lovely chilled day and done some hobbies. How can I make her life that little but nicer and easier. I know, I eill tidy up properly and vacuum so she doesn't have to before she can relax."

When we met his house was awful.

Sorry, but this was your clear sign to exit and you ignored it. There is no fucking way I could live like this, and I fair to understand how you tolerate it.

It's not that he doesn't see the mess, he just doesn't care, he doesn't care enough about you to change, and he's always gotten away with it, anyway. He simply doesn't give a shit.

This is a horrible, horrible example for your kids. Their mum works her arse to the bone only to support and tolerate a useless, disrespectful, slattern of a man.

This.

You have consciously made bad decision after bad decision.

This is who he is.

He has remained a consistent loser.

A lazy loser.

That is who he will remain.

Only you can choose a different path.

Sorry OP, but I'm afraid I agree with this!! Get your self respect back, and kick this lazy man-child into touch! You're worth SO much more!!

Every time he says he needs to do it, and agrees with you what he's actually saying "I will say anything to get you to stop talking but I have no intention of actually following through with anything I'm saying"

The quote below isn't my post, it's a post from a MN that resonated with me a whole back and I think it applies here

Household chore inequity and child care inequality is a form of domestic abuse. It forces women to work themselves into exhaustion and illness, whilst men buy their free time with female exhaustion.