to wonder why people are such jobsworths?

[Achildlessperson]

For people that don’t have a genuine stake in the game (ie partners of an LLP, business owners), why do they care SO much about things to the point it doesn’t genuinely advantage them?

Partly fuelled by another thread I’ve seen about catching out someone with a doctor’s note, I have to ask - why do you care? I understand if it puts more workload on to you, then FINE. But again, that’s a top management problem. Workers are paid in exchange for their labour. I completely get high earning jobs where you know what you’re going into before. However, sometimes I really do wonder why people go out their way to be such jobsworths when the advantage to them is 0.

For example, there’s a pub where we live that also has its own takeaway style bar - fish and chips, ice cream etc. One day DH and I bought fish and chips (£14) and then sat in the outside bit (not the height of summer and not busy) and ordered two drinks from the bar. A waitress told us we couldn’t eat THEIR OWN FOOD in their beer garden. We had already paid for our drinks so got given two plastic cups to put them in and go 1 meter away, behind the wall to eat. What was the point? Why would you care? The young girl didn’t own the pub, is paid under 21 wage.

I feel employers, the ones making the 0.1%, really take advantage of this. They’re fine breaking moral and ethical conduct rules, avoiding tax to the highest, but expecting their employees on minimum wage to go above their pay / job role. If everyone just said no, compensate me fairly for this, then the labour market may actually improve.

Everyone refers to high earning tech jobs and how they’re overpaid etc but these companies just get it right. They pay highly, improve morale, in exchange workers are happy to go above and beyond. The company improves, profits increase, efficiency and productivity improves = win win.

so, why do people care SO much? Especially as by “caring” isn’t actually always the most ethical/moral action?

OP just stop talking. You sound more and more entitled and less self aware with every post. The waitress was doing what she is paid to do. That's not being a jobsworth. It's doing your job.

Oh leave off.
All people should be human beings before their job. That’s what WW2 taught ius. Treat people the way you would want.

The sort of jobs that people get worked up about jobsworths are usually public facing low end stuff.

I have no idea what your point is….

I think it's very unfair when people blame junior staff, probably getting precious little more than min wage, for sticking to stupid rules laid down by their employers and that they have no say in.

Those staff don't have discretion in when or whether to apply those stupid rules, and probably don't agree with them any more than the aggrieved customer, but they need to keep their job so they can pay their bills.

If you think it's wrong that you're not allowed to eat takeaway food at eat-in tables, you need to take it up with the owner or manager, OP, not slag off the poor soul who's waiting tables to cover their rent.

Having worked retail/service, half the time the customer you do a favour for or turn a blind eye to will happily grass you up for your trouble "well that lady there said it was okay" and use it as justification to kick off at a colleague who tries to enforce whatever the policy is.

Best if all workers stick to the rules and present a united front against their common enemy.

Yeah, low paid jobs where workers are likely to lack a nice safety net of savings, and therefore can ill afford to suddenly lose their pay cheque or have their hours cut.

I want people to treat me nicely and politely. They can do that while enforcing the policy put in place by their employer. I don't want anyone to worry over being told off or disciplined by their manager for my sake - expecting that of them would be me NOT treating them how I would like to be treated.

So if it's best to stick to the rules in hospitality and retail, why is there so much discretion in law enforcement?

Say parking violations, speeding, anti social behaviour, etc - you know, the kind of things that REALLY matter, where parking wardens, police constables, etc., usually apply common sense and discretion for minor transgressions and let you off with a warning?

Funny that the World doesn't end, there isn't chaos, when a police constable just warns someone of their behaviour if, say, drunk, and lets them on their way?

Perhaps the ones with real power aren't power crazed with inferiority syndromes?

I think that sums it up. Retail workers think all their customers are "the enemy".

There's always someone who doesn't want to consider why there are rules never mind follow them.

The root of the issue is that people really don't like being told no by someone they perceive as 'below' them, and there's a lot of people out there who perceive service staff as below them, and the issue is usually that they don't feel like they've been deferred to enough in their great position as someone spending money.

And there's a bit of a culture about since covid of it being, for some bizarre reason, fashionable to be a 'victim' of 'poor' customer service. The "Oh my God this is so terrible" types that completely overreact to the slightest little thing, or make it up if it isn't there, and are then all triumphant "Look! Look! I'm a victim" it gets them a whole load of attention and possibly some free stuff to make them go away .

And as for treating customers like the enemy, well, personally I feel like I'm the one being treated like the enemy, it's just not enough now to be polite, friendly and deliver what is ordered and paid for, there has to be something free, another level of deference, almost groveling, so many customers have their hands out wanting some kind of reward for buying something, you're getting the service or product you've paid for in return for the money you've spent, not paying to own the person who serves you.

Someone upthread said that people should be humans before their job, well perhaps some customers should try treating those serving them like humans to start with.

Contractual obligation. They give me money in exchange for set of behaviours. Tbh I couldn't care less about 99% of the dumb shit I'm asked to do but it's only fair that if I take their money I follow their rules.

And if there were no rules a lot more people would receive 'oh do fuck off' rather than how may I help

@taxguru the enemy bit was a joke mate, even put a to help - and in any case, I never suggested anything applied to "all customers" anyway.

Most customers are average, some are lovely and some truly are the scum of the earth. I've had it all over the years, been lied about, sworn at, shouted at and on one memorable occasion pulled over the counter and kissed against my will.

Op, I get what you mean. You purchased the food from them, aswell as drinks from the bar, which usually you can drink in the pub garden. Aswell as eat in the pub garden if ordered from inside. But because they have this seperate takeaway food section, you can't eat the food in the pub garden from that area as it would stop restaurant/bar people being able to have a table there.

The difference on this day was that the garden was empty anyway, you were not taking up space on a table they could use for restaurant guests. The thing that jumps out to me is that had you just bought the drinks, you could have sat there as long as you like? But because you then bought food from their takeaway bit to have WITH your drink, they told you to move. which makes no sense whatsoever.

I witnessed a similar instance of no common sense a few weeks ago.

A ride aimed at small children, children upto a certain height can ride alone. Children under a certain height can ride with an adult. So the ride is absolutely capable of accommodating adults.

It was not busy. 2 children were on it, one with an adult as they were a little tot. A child who was about 2 cm over the 'height limit' for the ride went to get on and was told her was not allowed on at all. As too tall.

I can undertstand the rule in place when it is busy - as its for the littler ones and so spaces should be for them (and a parent). But there were about 10 empty carriages. And there was an adult on there!

i just thought, ok so rules is rules, but on that occasion when the slightly taller child was not taking a space from a younger one, it just made no sense.

YANBU drives me crazy too. Especially in the small town I live in

The thing is that maybe bosses are wrong. Listen to your customers. Half the rules are just made up by people who don’t understand the trade.
Our most successful publican who has turned every pub he’s owned in profit over 30 years gets it. People get treated as individuals.

If in the Ops case people are happy to buy cheaper fish and chips and not have waitress service/crockery etc, let them eat it in the garden. That’s what people want. Is why pubs started doing take away
If people only want to pay £4 for a child’s size portion let them do that. If they want a decent adult size meal they have that option.

I am slightly swayed by the fact we have just been given free drinks at lunchtime by a fantastically friendly French restaurant owner. 😁

All people should be human beings before their job. That’s what WW2 taught ius. Treat people the way you would want.

The sort of jobs that people get worked up about jobsworths are usually public facing low end stuff.

Unless you're well into your 80s then WW2 taught you nothing.

So people should only follow the rules if they're not public facing and "high end"? How dare those low end people do their job properly?

The problem here is that other people would then feel entitled to eat food bought elsewhere wherever they wanted (but that cafe does iiiiiiiit!), get free transport (but you let them on for free!) and not bring bin bags (But you did it last week!).

I've bent the rules for people with the understanding that it was a one off and wouldn't be repeated, only for people to try it every single time after that.

Reading through these posts, it’s obvious that there are two types of Mumsnetter : Those who have worked in minimum wage retail / hospitality / service jobs themselves, and those who haven’t.
The former group understand why such workers have to stick to the rules & policies set by their bosses. The latter group don’t.

People don’t though. Everyone understands you pay for the bus. You don’t eat your own food at the restaurant, lunch has a cut off time etc etc.
But equally if you see a waitress or waiter / retail assist/ guard actively engaging you understand they are a one off for whatever reason ( lost, friend, new small child in town). Its nice to see empowered, thinking staff.

They can and they do. I've seen it in different types of retail and in a call centre.

They let me do it last week! They did it for my friend! It's just this once!

Have you worked in retail?

I think the only times I've thought of someone as a jobsworth has been when I have actually been in the wrong (i.e being stopped smuggling out a half full bottle of wine from a restaurant to finish at home, not getting the Iphone i wanted on the contract i wanted despite it explicitly saying I couldn't, sitting in the wrong seats at cinema/train even when they weren't taking away from someone else). So i've been embarrassed/annoyed at being denied something I was never really allowed in the first place and immediately leapt to my own defence (in my head, I have never argued with people) justifying why I should have got what I wanted. I think the OP has done the same in that situation - you think well it wouldn't have made any difference just this once forgetting that you give people an inch and they take a mile.

Also agree with PP who said bending the rules is more trouble than it's worth; I had a big group in as a waitress back in the 90s. They wanted bread and butter so I just brought some out and didn't bother putting it on the bill as they were already spending £££ and being nice and bosses to busy to notice. Next week, a couple who had been in with the group came back and asked for bread and butter again - it was added to the bill and they were furious and argued the toss with my bosses who then found out I'd out given freebies last time. Luckily I wasn't sacked. Same with current job - I dropped something off to a customer because I was passing...next time they were charged delivery and were cross. Instead of enjoying the freebies, they get annoyed at standard treatment.

There are also unnecessarily unpleasant workers everywhere, but these people are also customers at other places inflicting their attitude on other workers. Circle of Retail Life!

I do actually ( supermarket). Also other retail, waitressing and bar work.

There are CF’s of the don’t ask you don’t get variety. Sometimes they have a point as well though. I think often staff actively enjoy putting them in their place.

That’s different to sticking to the rules even though you can see people are stuck/lost/one offs.

So in your supermarket job you actively go against the rules put in place by management? Which ones specifically do you ignore?

Age restriction? COSHH? Chill chain? Till lift limits?

I don't understand your post.

If you paid for a bottle of wine at a restaurant and you did not finish it, of course you can take it home with you. Its yours.