to wonder why people are such jobsworths?

[Achildlessperson]

For people that don’t have a genuine stake in the game (ie partners of an LLP, business owners), why do they care SO much about things to the point it doesn’t genuinely advantage them?

Partly fuelled by another thread I’ve seen about catching out someone with a doctor’s note, I have to ask - why do you care? I understand if it puts more workload on to you, then FINE. But again, that’s a top management problem. Workers are paid in exchange for their labour. I completely get high earning jobs where you know what you’re going into before. However, sometimes I really do wonder why people go out their way to be such jobsworths when the advantage to them is 0.

For example, there’s a pub where we live that also has its own takeaway style bar - fish and chips, ice cream etc. One day DH and I bought fish and chips (£14) and then sat in the outside bit (not the height of summer and not busy) and ordered two drinks from the bar. A waitress told us we couldn’t eat THEIR OWN FOOD in their beer garden. We had already paid for our drinks so got given two plastic cups to put them in and go 1 meter away, behind the wall to eat. What was the point? Why would you care? The young girl didn’t own the pub, is paid under 21 wage.

I feel employers, the ones making the 0.1%, really take advantage of this. They’re fine breaking moral and ethical conduct rules, avoiding tax to the highest, but expecting their employees on minimum wage to go above their pay / job role. If everyone just said no, compensate me fairly for this, then the labour market may actually improve.

Everyone refers to high earning tech jobs and how they’re overpaid etc but these companies just get it right. They pay highly, improve morale, in exchange workers are happy to go above and beyond. The company improves, profits increase, efficiency and productivity improves = win win.

so, why do people care SO much? Especially as by “caring” isn’t actually always the most ethical/moral action?

I actually agree with the OP. Some staff seem to be on some weird power trip.

One of the worst was the manager at our local Argos a few years ago. She'd query and argue about returns/refunds for no obvious reason at all, and seemed to take it as a personal insult that we wanted a refund when something they sold was faulty.

Worst was a set of kitchen pans that were bought for us as a wedding present, one of the handles sheered off after just a few months, so we took the set back for either a replacement or a refund (along with the wedding present list generated by Argos - it was in the days they had a system where guests could buy presents off the present list, so that was evidence it was bought in Argos, with reference number etc so they could trace who bought it and when!).

Inevitably it was this woman at the returns till. We explained the problem and politely asked for a replacement pan. Firstly she started arguing we must have abused it as "handles don't fall off", then she reluctantly checked the stock checker and said they've been discontinued, so they couldn't replace them anyway, and basically told us to go away. OH is a letter writer, so he wrote to head office to complain with the full details, etc., they wrote back and told us to go back to the store, with their letter, for a replacement. So we did, and it was this woman again, she looked really mad at seeing the letter, and then sighed and went away, and brought back a random pan, didn't match the rest of the set at all, so looked pretty stupid. We asked for a full set replacement, but again, she refused. So we left again.

Rather than OH writing another letter, we just went to another store. Lovely bloke at the counter, just looked at the pan set, looked at the wedding list, and asked us which replacement pan set we'd like, we didn't even show him the letter from head office. In the end, he gave us a slightly more expensive pan set as there wasn't really a "like for like" available. No hassle at all, lots of apologies.

Sometimes, it really is just a nasty person on a power trip!

So is common sense but there's a real lack of that.

Sometimes, it really is just a nasty person on a power trip!

Sometimes, it really is just a nasty person who thinks the rules don't apply to them.

Another time was trying to get a refund for a camcorder at Currys. We bought it online, and the website clearly stated you could return online purchases to instore. But no, the manager was having none of it, refused to listen to us when we told him what their website said, refused to look at our mobile phone screen when we brought the returns webpage up on screen. Just complete refusal to even think he may be wrong.

We just went to the store in the next town and they refunded it without question.

Same with a Halfords bike we bought that they "assembled" incorrectly causing an accident. We took it back wanting it exchanged for a new one (due to it now having scratches/marks), but the manager refused, arguing that even though they assembled it, it was still our responsibility to check it had been made properly! We went back on a couple of different days, just to wonder around the shop, to see if he was there. On the second attempt, he wasn't around, so we assumed it was his day off, so we took the bike in, explained to the assistant manager about the problems, etc., and he couldn't have been more helpful, told us they'd do a swap and asked us to come back in an hour once they'd assembled it. So we went back, it had been done, he went through every bit of it to show us the nuts were tightened, etc., and we went happily on our way.

As I say, some staff seem to take problems as personal insults and are on such a power/ego trip, they won't do what they are required to do, which makes them look even more stupid. Sometimes, the only way it to go around them to get the resolution.

Not when the customer know he's actually right, and it's the shop worker who's wrong, when it's faulty goods, or the manager not knowing their store's own return policy!

I think there's a difference between doing as you're told and upholding the rules - and dealing with CFery - why would you eat fish and chips in a pub garden if you hadn't bought them there - that is cheeky and the staff will tell you to move on. Also sometimes you might be told to uphold processes because it saves time not having to work around a process when everyone starts wanting special treatment - for example having to have a parkrun barcode to get a time rather than expecting people to look you up and put you in manually.

However, there are other scenarios where staff really should have more discretion. For example, you have an advance ticket for a train which has to be used on a specific train. You are early. The train before is empty, but you can't use it because rules. That is silly. Another example, having to have your library card to take books out, even though when you bring books back, it flashes up with your details, so it's easy to put the new books on that account. In general customer service staff need better training and to be given more ability to use common sense.

Well I work hard and do my best and I resent having colleagues who are paid the same (or more than me) doing f all. That's why it bothers me, even though yes it's technically managements problem. But actually it's not, that work just gets given to someone else. Also I like to have good service, not the bare minimum so people doing as you suggest ruin it for everyone. Trying to sort out an error on a phone bill at the money and it's a nightmare because I just get passed on to different people and no one can be bothered actually resolving the issue. Noticing this more and more, probably because of shitty attitudes like yours.

👏👏👏
If I've understood you OP, it's a race to the bottom where everyone does the bare minimum and no one gives a shit about anyone but themselves.
Also, some people actually take pride in doing a good job. I know I really value if I've helped someone resolve an issue

There are jobsworths, there are people doing the job they're contracted to do and respecting the guidelines of that contract/workplace and there are CF clients who don't understand the law.

The example of the fish and chips has 2 of the above 3 things meeting in the Venn diagram. The missing one isn't the jobsworth.

The waitress will be sick of clearing up peoples wrappers, the wrappers attract vermin and it is her job! She is not a jobsworth. A jobsworth is someone like the ticket inspector who made my mum and a man who was very happy where he was move because they were in the 'wrong seats'.

Your post has just proved my point.

Hear hear.

And just cast the net a bit wider for a moment. Sure, the waitress doesn't give a rats ass abut the business but she cares about saving enough money to be able to pay her rent and stay on at uni to finish her course. So she does what she's told because it does benefit her.

I hate this spectacularly Mumsnet phrase, but I'm afraid in this instance, OP, you really do sound like hard work.

That happens when you are in seats reserved for other people and / or you are in the wrong class (first versus standard) on the train. So, yeah. Deserved.

You are paid to do a job and some of those jobs come with rules that you are told to enforce whether it makes sense or not.

Saw a woman complain bitterly that she wasn't given free plastic bags in a nice clothes shop as she 'had spent a lot of money'. The assistant tried to explain that it is the law and she cannot give a bag away, however the woman still grumbled.

If I've understood you OP, it's a race to the bottom where everyone does the bare minimum and no one gives a shit about anyone but themselves.

That sums up a lot of threads I've seen on MN lately.

I think a lot of the time things that can be seen as petty are actually being mentioned because the person being called petty is looking at the bigger picture

For example, in my job I often get people who have came to pick up a car they've bought but instead of just doing that they try to walk around the private compound next door and look at other cars

I also have people that want to drive cars on-site that they haven't paid for yet

I just tell them that it's our policy and that I'm following instructions from my manager

Most people are okay with it and I don't overly like confrontation but the more I do it the easier it gets

Doing the job you're being paid to do isn't being a jobsworth 🙄

I care about things that don't affect me directly - because I have a very pronounced sense of right/wrong and Justice and I want to live in a fairer world.
Using your example of eating a takeaway in the beer garden - the employee is carrying out the duties assigned to her in exchange for a wage. Fair. The employer doesn't want anyone eating takeaways in the beer garden. They have their reasons, maybe it's too difficult to police, maybe there's a potential issue with waste (food/paper)....but ultimately in MN style No, is a complete answer.
I know people work cash in hand whilst claiming benefits. That's unfair. I don't want to pay tax either but I do. It's unfair that someone should have more income than me simply by conning the state. The state includes me. It's stealing. I care.

Of course, thete have bern timrs when ive been the opposite of a jobsworth. Ive made a decision against policies. This isnt through apathy though, lve made a conscious decision that i feel the 'rules' arent fair. You seem to either lack imagination or to be incredibly insular if you don't understand a 'jobsworths' mentality.

I agree OP.
I think with young employees it can be that they don't have enough life experience to apply sense over rigidity.

When I worked catering, I was amazed how people would defend the employer's unfair actions to their own detriment (in this case expecting hourly workers to stay unpaid until everything was done - so many hours of labour stolen).

At IKEA I asked them to sub one portion of carbs for another for my son who has a restrictive eating disorder - they point blank refused because computer said no.

🤖

But TBF to them, if the till won't let them do it and the management don't want them to do it, they just can't do it. It's not worth their job.
In my experience, it's the lower level managers trying to make a name for themselves who will make floor staff/cashiers lives a living hell if they don't tow the line. Upper management wouldn't see a problem.

I usually find when people are complaining about ‘jobsworths’ it’s because they’re being asked to do something they don’t want to do, (or prevented from doing something) but don’t understand the reasons why.

Some people think traffic wardens are jobsworths because they’re not allowed to just park wherever they like.

Very often it’s entitled sorts of people; people who think rules should not apply to them, combined with a lack of self awareness and not being able to see the broader context.

The other point is no matter how low paid someone is, most people don’t want to lose their job, so they obey their employer and do what they’re paid to do.

You won’t get a good reaction here. We are all curtain twitching jobsworths.

Our local Facebook page is full of bitching about the traffic wardens. There is one in particular who gets a lot of hate and I really hope she doesn't live locally.

Posts are often "I parked on the main street on double yellows with my hazards on while I offloaded all my charity donations then took them into the shop, exchanged pleasantries with the volunteers and she appeared out of nowhere and gave me a ticket! What a jobsworth!" Then plenty of comments calling her awful names, accusing her of purposely making people's lives difficult etc.

It's literally her job...