To think this doctors note is ridiculous

[Bluesjies]

Okay this employer has always been a bit lazy but we’ve just had to put up with it.
She does around half the work of other colleagues but we’ve never been able to do anything about it as she does just enough to avoid her being sacked.

Anyway we allocated her a few tasks to do which include several in person meetings (can’t be virtual on this occasion for various reasons).
We knew she didn’t like attending meetings as she prefers just working from home so wondered if she’d say she was sick on the day or say she was not well enough to not work from home.
We can’t avoid attending meetings forever. She’s more than competent when she is in them. I think it’s just she lives an hour from the meeting place and she doesn’t like the commute, getting up early etc.
We do try to have teams meetings where we can but it’s not always possible.

Anyway the meeting on Monday has been arranged and she informed me she could not attend as she was having pain and struggling to walk 🙄”. I replied the meeting isn’t for four days. Will the pain be better then? She didn’t reply but then a couple days later submitted a doctors note saying she needs to work from home until her maternity leave (in 4 months) due to pelvic pain.
There’s not much we can do here really if there’s a doctors note. Or so I thought.

I happened to see her walking perfectly well down a road near her home today so I do have evidence she’s more than able to mobilise.

AIBU to think her note is just nonesense and challenge her on her perfect walking ability? I don’t know why these GP’s write these notes out when it’s not the truth.

Or am I best to silently seeth and get on with it.

Weird how you're just "management team", surely there are more specific titles/roles? Idk why you're being so cagey, with the way you've been getting into the nitty gritty with the employee's business.

Anyway, careful being the type to "just be passing" sick people's houses or spotting that they've been on FB. It'll make you no friends.

leave her alone

You are stepping on thin ice, I would leave it.

Pretty sure posting a employees personal medical and HR terms on the internet is against policy in the public sector. Do you need to go on a performance plan?

She could very well read this as could your other employees.

Shocking management.

If somebody says they’re in pain how would you expect the doctor to assess whether that’s true? Pain isn’t usually outwardly visible, there’s no blood test or examination which can prove or disprove whether somebody is in pain. Pelvic pain when walking is very common in pregnancy and it can fluctuate so just because you saw your colleague walking near her home doesn’t mean she doesn’t have pain when walking some or most of the time.

If a pregnant woman attends an appointment saying she has pelvic pain when walking, a common/ known problem for some women in pregnancy, what would you have expected from the doctor prior to writing the fit note? How do you know this was not carried out?

Based on what @Bluesjies has written above, I wouldn't be at all surprisied if Bluejies found herself in front on a disciplinary committee in the coming months. She certainly seems determined to skate on thin ice!

The doctor isn't t lying for her, OP.

I had really bad PGP during both pregnancies. Some days it wasn't too bad - I could walk and it was uncomfortable but not excruciating. Other days I could barely move. It also got progressively worse the further along I was. I couldn't even turn over in bed without crying in pain.

On a good day I risked a quick trip to IKEA. I was in tears by the time I got ti the tills.

I imagine the doctor has written her a note because they know it's just going to get worse and they're trying to manage it as best they can. Rest and not over exerting yourself is the only thing that helps - but really there isn't anything you can do to stop it.

Are you a GP? If not

How do you have this intimate knowledge of what goes on in a GP consultation?

Or is it maybe what you've done yourself to mislead a GP?

I think the fact you’ve used the term ‘you have proof she’s able to ‘mobilise’ is just truly awful.

I remember having to literally carry my bump with my hand to stop the terrible pulling pain as I walked, ligaments get stretched it was horrible.

Then again an easy thing to fake to a Dr.. so you’ll never know really I guess.

Thread very carefully, she is pregnant it’s the uppermost protection you can have in the work place .
She can have SPD and it comes and goes and yes it makes traveling really difficult. Maybe try and adjust work to her needs , that’s all you can do

I'm in a very different situation in that I've just been told by my employer that I can't attend the office after 20 weeks - I'm at 19.5.

Thing is though, after being dragged out to a meeting that was cancelled, I did kind of lose my shit. Because yes, pregnancy doesn't make me an invalid, but it was a horrendous use of my energy.

My back hurts more, I got even worse indigestion from the travel, I slept badly for the night before in the hotel and the night after due to back pain.

All unnecessary - the cancelled meeting could have been arranged on Teams.

Pregnancy places limits on my health and energy, and I don't see why work should get first dibs on both at all times when reasonable accommodations can be made.

I hope the employee finds this thread, there's some excellent ammunition for a bullying and harassment case here.

Managers all talking about a staff member and micromanaging her without informing her of the concerns or putting her on a formal PMP, accusing her of lying, spying on her outside of work, no attempts to make reasonable adjustments when she has additional health needs. Lots to unpack here.

As a senior manager may I respectfully suggest that you and your senior manager colleagues seek legal advice in relation to adjustments for a pregnant woman. If performance issues remain on her return from maternity then manage them with smart objectives, support and regular documented monitoring.

I find it I incredible that you are discussing a colleague’s business on a forum. YABU and unprofessional.

I'm a GP.
We get pressured into giving sick notes. And pain is very subjective - if someone says they have pain we have to take their word for it.

And yes, I do hope also that this conduct has repercussions for you.

Me too, on my second pregnancy, i ended up wearing a brace and the pain could be agonising.

Thisnis like when employers see an employee who has been signed off for mental health issues out for a walk or reading a book in the park and decide they’re not unwell.

I had pelvic issues in pregnancy OP, it was awful. I had lots of issues in pregnancy to be honest, but that didn’t mean I constantly waddled everywhere, sometimes I had to stop walking, other times I walked okay.

There is nothing you can do, nor should you do anything. Leave her be.

Three weeks ago I drove myself to the ER, parked nearby and walked in because I had a terrible stomachache and right-sided pain. Three hours later I was in surgery for appendicitis. Anyone who spotted me would have thought, 'oh there's pollykitty' not 'pollykitty looks like she's in terrible pain'. You cannot really tell anything by seeing someone walk down the road. People are capable of doing things in terrible pain and discomfort.
Having said that, I think this issue (her potential lie regarding pain) and her work are separate. So she's a crap lazy employee - what have you done about it, really? I was a manager years ago and had two employees who were not doing their jobs very well at different times. One was put on a performance plan, and then decided to quit rather than do the plan, the other was also put on a plan, did not do any of it, and was fired. Both processes took months and were incredibly annoying but the only 'fair' way to sort it out. We (management) made the employee aware of their performance as under par, and gave them tools to improve. Neither person improved -- their choice.
This whole 'she does enough to avoid getting fired' is BS. If you want her out, put the work into the proper procedure and get her out. Don't use her maternity condition and trying to say her doctor's note is fraudulent as some way around it. It comes off as creepy and lazy yourself.

I’m assuming she’s pregnant in which case it sounds like SPD which I had during pregnancy. I couldn’t walk for months. It’s agonising.

This very much reads like you know as a manager what will make your pregnant employee's life easier and have gone out of your way to do things that make life harder for her. I suggest you make an Occ Health referral so that appropriate measures can be implemented by you (as her senior manager).

I'd "silently seeth and get on with it" if I was you. Otherwise you're going to be the one getting sacked. Whatever made you think this was a good idea to post? Completely unprofessional, cruel, unnecessary and probably grounds for discrimination.

From just reading this brief summary you come across as very unpleasant. You have obviously been spending time bitching about an employee with other managers without following appropriate procedures. I worked in the public sector and you can terminate someone's contract for not meeting the required standard in attendance or capabilities - you just have to follow procedures - which admittedly can be less fun than bitching about someone! Finally please remember there is a human at the centre of this - someone's daughter, mother ... and treat her like you would like one of your own treated.