To think this doctors note is ridiculous

[Bluesjies]

Okay this employer has always been a bit lazy but we’ve just had to put up with it.
She does around half the work of other colleagues but we’ve never been able to do anything about it as she does just enough to avoid her being sacked.

Anyway we allocated her a few tasks to do which include several in person meetings (can’t be virtual on this occasion for various reasons).
We knew she didn’t like attending meetings as she prefers just working from home so wondered if she’d say she was sick on the day or say she was not well enough to not work from home.
We can’t avoid attending meetings forever. She’s more than competent when she is in them. I think it’s just she lives an hour from the meeting place and she doesn’t like the commute, getting up early etc.
We do try to have teams meetings where we can but it’s not always possible.

Anyway the meeting on Monday has been arranged and she informed me she could not attend as she was having pain and struggling to walk 🙄”. I replied the meeting isn’t for four days. Will the pain be better then? She didn’t reply but then a couple days later submitted a doctors note saying she needs to work from home until her maternity leave (in 4 months) due to pelvic pain.
There’s not much we can do here really if there’s a doctors note. Or so I thought.

I happened to see her walking perfectly well down a road near her home today so I do have evidence she’s more than able to mobilise.

AIBU to think her note is just nonesense and challenge her on her perfect walking ability? I don’t know why these GP’s write these notes out when it’s not the truth.

Or am I best to silently seeth and get on with it.

It's awful working with lazy people who expect their collegues to cover for them.
Most of us have come across people like that.
She may or perhaps does not have pelvic pain so you can't do anything about it.
However if I was one of her put upon collegues I would want management to deal with it properly when she returns from maternity leave.

You sound an absolute nightmare, a proper jobsworth 🙄😬
The woman in question may be suffering anxiety around group meetings, you don't sound remotely approachable (if indeed there was such an issue).

Having tried to manage people out from public service employment - you have my sympathy. I too had a situation where someone signed off sick for back pain / mobility issues was seen walking around and this was reported to me by several other employees. This person was also in a management role. I did eventually persuade this person that leaving was an easier option than staying, with me on their case full time. however this was a man, and he was not pregnant.

At least now you know this employee is off for 1 year plus and can plan accordingly.

I also know of a case, which went to tribunal, where someone signed off long term sick was seen working somewhere else. Employee sacked, went to tribunal. Would have been cheaper to pay them off, rather than take the hit on the legal fees. But it's at times like these where you do have to think about the impact of that on the remaining staff.

I am cringing at your post. You are most definitely not cut out for management.

God forbid somebody has a difficult pregnancy and tries to keep on working by asking for adjustment such a wfh.

A Doctor/physio would encourage her to keep active (as mine did) by going for short walks etc, so seeing her walking by her home really isn’t evidence of anything. I hope you didn’t film the poor woman.

You don’t sound professional at all, I imagine she has a very different take on what you’ve posted!

@Bluesjies I think I've been where you're coming from.

Re PGP, it's horrific and the employee has the doctor's note so that's really the end of the matter. You could ask her to see OH to discuss appropriate support etc but they will be governed by the limits the GP has set out for the duration of the note.

Re chronic underperformance and/or bare minimum performance, strategic sick leave etc I understand your frustration. It is true that someone who is determined to work things to their advantage, in the public sector, can do what's necessary during performance review and then slip back into really annoying underperformance very quickly. It's also true that historic mismanagement or overly indulgent management can mean you inherit a really impossible situation. The amount of extra work it requires from you, as a manager, to actually deal with such an employee, on top of likely also picking up the pieces the employee habitually drops, can make it feel like it's not worth the effort or your sanity.

I'm sending you my sympathy because I totally believe it's possible to be a rubbish employee and one suffering debilitating pregnancy symptoms at the same time. If she returns from maternity leave, plan ahead to tackle things robustly then.

If she has a sick note from the Dr then you need to accept that regardless of whether you believe it to be real or not. As others have said pelvic pain can be very bad in pregnancy and can come and go. It might be that the hour in the car is the bit she can't do and this may be genuine.

I think you are muddling up this current sick note with previous conduct which does seem to really be angling toward working from home and not ever attending meetings. All you can do as an employer here is continue to be professional and when this pregnancy and maternity leave is over you can go back to her and deal with the not attending meetings again.

Could I just point out that not all GPs do this. I would have flatly refused to make such a specific recommendation and would have signposted to occupational health. GPs who basically give out sick notes on demand give us all a bad name.

I totally agree with you OP. Managing and working with people who are lazy or want to do the barest of the bare minimum is a nightmare.
And if it's public sector, you know you'll never be rid of them unless they choose to go.
I've been there and it's soul destroying for everyone else when some take the piss.

You can touch her if she’s preggo (quite right)

Should have appropriately performance managed her previously 🤷‍♀️

I work in public sector. I can confirm it's entirely possible to end someone's employment for poor performance or bad conduct as long as you do the work you as a manager are supposed to do. I have supported on three dismissals just this year. So that part of your post is nonsense.

As for the rest, just take advice from your HR team and occupational health. If she's still too unwell to work and the ill health is related to her pregnancy you can start the maternity leave early.

Performance issues aside, you really are not qualified to question a doctors certificate!

Have you heard of SPD??? Walking a short walk can be absolutely fine in some cases then agony in others.
She's pregnant, leave her be about the certificate and try showing another women some empathy!

If you really must pull her up about something then focus on the performance issues.

If you are the manager.....are you following this poor woman around??? Cos that's not really cool. You could end up in trouble if she finds out.

I imagine the OP has been mithering occ health and got nowhere, so she's now decided to go maverick and is doing recce/spying on the poor woman 😂

Wow, what a dick comment.

@Abouttoblow
And I totally agree with you too. I am in the public sector and while I completely support the fantastic sick leave provisions, it really is frustrating to see the same folk completely take the piss time and time again. Just ruins it for people who genuinely need the support and time off.

Why don’t you just get rid of her? Then, when she posts on here in a few days asking for advice, I’ll tell her “it’s okay, I was discriminated against in my pregnancy too, but Pregnant Then Screwed will help you”

Yabu- she has a doctors note
you’ve seen her once, you have no idea the ins and outs of her condition

i had pelvic pain and it was on and off. Most of the time i couldnt walk but every now and then it would ease off

stop being a jobsworth and keep your beak out

You sound like a bit of a bully OP

Firstly do not challenge her that could end badly for you. I think you need to take it at face value she may be able to walk down the road but coming to a meeting may be too much
She pregnant and she goes on maternity in a few months I'd just let it go and not let it take up anymore head space of yours

I can't believe you're a manager when you can't differentiate between employer and employee. You sound like nasty bullies. There's absolutely nothing you can do as she has a doctors note!

A manager who cannot be bothered doing their job, complaining about an employee not doing their job.

Not a good look.

PIP are meant to be robust to ensure both parties are protected. It is your job to follow through with it and keep on top of your employees performance and give them the conditions they need to succeed.

Now she is pg and needing support you are pissed off at your own previous lack of action.

Some folk here need to get a grip, it's called malingering and so many people are guilty of it, pregnant or otherwise. She's prob had a tel consult and said shes got pelvic pain, no doctor in their right mind would challenge that and will just assume pregnancy related issue. Take it easy etc That's not to say she isn't taking the piss out of her protected status. I suffered in both pregnancies so I know how painful it can be, but given the overall picture of her she's just at it.

Its bloody annoying when people don't pick up the slack and let the rest of the team carry them. If she's doing the minimum then that needs to be addressed in performance, however I'd wait until after maternity leave to see if it improves.

Coincidentally does she have a childcare plan for RTW, can bet my house a request for perm home working will be put in as she's one of those that thinks they can work and look after a baby..... And will be doing even less than she is now.....good luck OP.

I work in HR and I'm embarrassed for you. If she's underperforming you should have dealt with it long before now.

OP's employee is crap & lazy, is caught red handed faking an injury to get out of attending something she's well known to dislike attending and it's OP who's being unreasonable for not liking it?!?!?! Are you serious?!?!?!