To think this doctors note is ridiculous

[Bluesjies]

Okay this employer has always been a bit lazy but we’ve just had to put up with it.
She does around half the work of other colleagues but we’ve never been able to do anything about it as she does just enough to avoid her being sacked.

Anyway we allocated her a few tasks to do which include several in person meetings (can’t be virtual on this occasion for various reasons).
We knew she didn’t like attending meetings as she prefers just working from home so wondered if she’d say she was sick on the day or say she was not well enough to not work from home.
We can’t avoid attending meetings forever. She’s more than competent when she is in them. I think it’s just she lives an hour from the meeting place and she doesn’t like the commute, getting up early etc.
We do try to have teams meetings where we can but it’s not always possible.

Anyway the meeting on Monday has been arranged and she informed me she could not attend as she was having pain and struggling to walk 🙄”. I replied the meeting isn’t for four days. Will the pain be better then? She didn’t reply but then a couple days later submitted a doctors note saying she needs to work from home until her maternity leave (in 4 months) due to pelvic pain.
There’s not much we can do here really if there’s a doctors note. Or so I thought.

I happened to see her walking perfectly well down a road near her home today so I do have evidence she’s more than able to mobilise.

AIBU to think her note is just nonesense and challenge her on her perfect walking ability? I don’t know why these GP’s write these notes out when it’s not the truth.

Or am I best to silently seeth and get on with it.

I’m currently signed off sick with depression. Happened to see one of my colleagues last week walking down the street in the town I work in with what probably looks like a friend - probably looked completely fit to work. It’s actually my CPN who was taking me to the local psychiatric hospital for a weekly session of ECT so definitely not fit to work despite appearances! I am a doctor and wouldn’t judge fitness to work based on brief sightings so I don’t see how you can.

Christ, are you my former manager? I've had PGP throughout all of my three successful pregnancies, and it gets worse each time. I was hobbling around on crutches with my last pregnancy, I was in absolute fucking agony.

My former manager - a mother herself - was a complete bitch about the whole thing. We don't have a lift in our office building, and the two flights of stairs were too narrow for me to use my crutches, so I had to drag myself up with the banister.

Manager took this as me being "dramatic" and "exaggerating" the pain I was in. She also refused to let me WFH because - I quote - "Nobody gives a shit about your pregnancy darling, the rest of us manage it."

Don't be that cunt.

I had pgp in all 3 of my pregnancies - first two pregnancies I ended up on crutches and the last I used the buggy. Some days it was fine and I could walk normally and others I had to crawl up the stairs. Sometimes I'd be walking along quite normally and then all of a sudden one of my legs would buckle. I had extensive physio and hydrotherapy and the advice was always to stay within your means, to keep as mobile as you can or you'll get worse but to rest regularly. I got to the point with all 3 pregnancies that I couldn't travel to work in the normal way and had go get lifts or work from home. During my second pregnancy (when I worked in HR ironically) I woke up one day suddenly unable to walk and I ended up going onto sick leave and then mat leave. Occ health was involved but my manager wanted rid of me because she didn't believe me as I'd been "fine" the day before (albeit on crutches.

This could well be a case of boy who cried wolf. She always made excuses before and so this is what you expect of her. She very may well have been struggling for a while but didn't mention it as she was wfh and she thought not relevant. She could also be struggling to sit and work, so you should check to see whether occ health should be involved (yes they should).

Either way you're being incredibly unprofessional behaving in the way that you are. Her performance is a seperate issue and should be managed as such.

It is genuinely sad that people like @Bluesjies are put in positions of power. No wonder so many places are full of stressed employees with low morale, with ignorant managers looking for any reason to reprimand them.
Are you really too ignorant to understand that people with pelvic pain can walk? I had bad sciatic pain towards the end of one pregnancy, should I have screamed and cried as I walked in case people couldn't tell I was uncomfortable? Would that have been enough?

Well you knew she was going to duck the meeting, so there's your answer.

Wow, I’m so glad you’re not my manager (although I have had some like you in the past, including the one who so generously suggested that I should lie on the floor under her desk as she wasn’t using her office when I had a severe migraine that had made me lose the vision in one eye, and had made me sick a few times. What I needed was to be allowed to go home to bed, but she wouldn’t let me in case I felt better after a lie down on the floor!)

You have absolutely no idea the pain this poor woman is in. A gentle walk near home is very very different from an hour long commute with pain. I had severe osteoarthritis in both hips, and before it got really bad, there would be days when I could hardly walk my child to school but other days when the heavy duty meds had actually worked and I could walk fairly normally. If anyone had seen me on those days they may well have been judging me too. Behind the scenes I couldn’t put my socks on, couldn’t climb the stairs. I couldn’t walk up or downhill without struggling massively but on a flat bit of pavement couldn’t manage not too badly. Obviously as it progressed the good days were few and far between.

This employee doesn’t have a history of sick leave before she was pregnant. It sounds to me very much that you’ve taken a disliking to her and it’s very unprofessional. It sounds as if it could turn into a bit of a witch hunt. It’s very unprofessional putting it on here.

@Bluesjies you keep saying you are management, but are you specifically her line manager or the HR manager?

The professional approach to this problem is to make a referral to occupational health.

Or you could jump on MNs with your own diagnosis that you've made based on watching her in the street and ask a bunch of strangers who may or may not be qualified to advise you.

I hope that your business has a qualified HR person and isn't relying on your judgement.

Firstly you should just leave her alone. She had a doctors note and she’s pregnant. Suck it up.

Secodly, public sector is always like this. It’s why people prefer working in the private sector..more money and more freedom. Less box ticking. Probably less ‘management team’ jobs though..

It really isn't hugely difficult to dismiss someone in the public sector if there are genuine grounds and you are a good manager with the support of a decent HR department and occupational health team. I've been on both sides as I was in a public sector management role previously and I eventually had to leave due to long term ill health. So I have both been involved in managing people out and been managed out myself. It's a myth that it's impossible to lose a public sector job.
If this employee genuinely under performs to the degree that you're suggesting and it hasn't been dealt with, that's the fault of the management team/wider organisation but it is a separate issue to her current sickness. Leaping to the conclusion that either she, her GP or both are lying because you saw her walking down the street once is ridiculous. As many people have pointed out her symptoms are likely to be intermittent and by definition you're only going to see her out and about in a good phase. For all you know she might have gone home and been bedbound for the rest of the day. You don't have to be incapable of doing anything to be unfit for work. She may well have been advised to keep as active as she can, but that could be a world away from being able to work as normal.
I'd ask your HR department for an update on your organisation's policies on sickness absence and maternity rights if I were you. You might want to look over their employee social media use policy too as it could be you that's facing disciplinary action if the employee in question recognises herself from this thread.

You're been EXTREMELY unreasonable.

I developed SPD on both my pregnancies and although I could walk and even drive if needed, it was very very painful. I was also signed off to go to the office until the baby was born. Some ppl end up on wheelchair even because of the pain. It's so so hard, you've got no idea, clearly.

I'm glad her GP stepped in.
You sound a nightmare of a manager and completely lacking empathy!

The poor lady.

And this is why I left my previous company. I have MS and they made me feel like I "wasn't allowed" to go for a walk or do anything much really. I was FB friends with a colleague who would show management my weekend activities and if it was "too fun" then I'd go in on a Monday and was treated like a liar. (Once I realised it was her, I deleted her immediately!)

If I wasn't in a wheelchair - they were rude and dismissive!

Sometimes I can run 5k, sometimes I can cycle 10km and sometimes I can't work at all.

i was in this exact scenario I was the pregnant person and my manager kept hounding me to attend uneccessary face to face meetings. In the end I left that job because of the discrimination and lack of care for my health. You don’t know what she going though just leave it OP.

So many armchair experts on here who seem to know that this employee is "swinging the lead". I wonder if they are the same people who declare "He doesn't look blind" when I ask them not to bump into my little one's buggy as he is blind and it scares him when his buggy moves without warning.

You are out of order OP.

Sometimes I can't WALK* at all (not work)

Do you know what happens with pelvic gidle pain? Your hip bones become unstable and grind against each other as you walk. It's agony, but it's worse on some days than others.

I agree that it sounds like you just don't like her because she's not licking arse all the time. Maybe your meetings are an unproductive waste of time? Most meetings are.

Putting someone on a performance plan in late pregnancy would be horrible. I bet she's looking forward to mat leave and hoping there'll be a change of management while she's away.

Have a look at the various threads on here about how hard it is to even get a GP appt - people wake up at 8 a.m. to ring, takes hours to get through and the next available slot is ages away.
Sometimes all you get is a telephone appointment.

So it's easier for them to give a sick note. It doesn't affect them anyway.

Besides people can also choose to be signed off with things like stress or depression which nobody can verify, so what's the point?

No it isn't 'virtually impossible'. I've been a Union Rep for over 35 years in the Public Sector. It is usually because management go down the path of misconducts and capabilities without getting the correct information or building the case properly and try and wing it. You really cannot do that when someone's job is at stake.
In this case - forget it. Maternity is on her side. In any case if you had brought this to a hearing I would be asking if I could see your medical degree as you clearly think she can fool her GP but not you.

Also @labcoats if there was an issue with the baby yes but the discomfort of the mother nobody cares.
Again this isn't for this woman but in tue context of you saying that a sick note is hard to get... It's really not.

Ops never had / heard of or can appreciate the agony of pgp clearly. I had it and couldn’t commute in both pregnancies. My manager was very sympathetic and understanding.

With managers like op who wants to work harder!

Challenge her OP, and then we can all follow the thread where she successfully sues you.

It’s not virtually impossible to dismiss for poor performance if you follow a fair process. Get them on a performance action plan and collate evidence.
however for the time being with her being pregnant I would not be touching her at all. If she was a poor performer before pregnancy it’s a shame it wasn’t dealt with then but you’ll be risking a lot to do it to a pregnant woman.
when and if she returns, monitor her performance, ensure you have supported her, if she still has pains then send her to occ health for an assessment. I’d be asking her what treatment is she seeking if it’s an ongoing issue?
if poor performer continues you action it in line with your policy.
But for now I’m afraid you’ll have to bite your tongue

Are you implying that you've been able to do a better and more thorough assessment of her pelvic pain than her own doctor has? By merely seeing her walking down the street one day?

Are you Dr House?

You've got the unprofessionalism and total lack of empathy down at least.

I am horrified that a manager sees fit to write a post about a pregnant employee, which she may well see.

How dare you, OP. This is the equivalent of the DWP telling disabled people that they can walk, even when they can't.

I've had subluxation of the symphysis pubis three times. It was agony. But sometimes it just went away for an hour or two. It was unpredictable but incredibly painful when it kicked in..
YABVVU.

Well, she is pregnant so she probably has good reason, and if she wasn't providing dubious medical notes prior to pregnancy, then there is really no basis for thinking it is anything other than genuine.

However, as someone who worked in the public sector with a colleague who seemed to be off more than she was in with some very dubious reasons, I can understand your concerns. On reason she gave for being unable to come in totally contradicted the reason she had given a couple of months previously.

The final straw was her asking for AL for a particular date and it being declined as someone else was off at the same time. A few days before the time she wanted to take off, she very conveniently broken her wrist and appeared briefly in work towards the end of the week with a plaster cast on and to say the hospital had advised her to rest her wrist for the next two weeks as it was a bad break. But when she was asked for a hospital note, apparently the hospital "forgot" to give her a discharge note. Guess what, she came back to work after two weeks - and those two weeks were the two weeks she had originally wanted off, all tanned. It might have been coincidence. And then she had the plaster cast removed after the 4th week following "the bad break" there was no sign of injury, she was using her arm and hand with no noticeable difficulty and her arm was TANNED the same as the rest of her!! So she wasn't wearing a plaster cast on holiday!!! We had no clue how she managed to get two plaster casts onto an arm that didn't need it, but somehow she did. She left of her own choice not long after that.