Universal basic income and what it may look like

[porkpiesinthepark]

I've been thinking for a while about the criticism of UBI and I think it's due to people not being able to imagine the government trying to 'match' peoples wages. In my opinion, it never will but there will be alternatives to what we have now, which will be able to offer something better.

So say the UBI is £1000 a month for a single person.
We could change the housing market to allow much more public housing with rents set at an affordable level, much more stability, no private landlords and the option to customise/ change your home. Let's face it, home ownership is out of reach for the majority at present. I don't find people are dying to own their own homes but desperate to be out of the instability of the private rental market, out of parents houses, out of house shares etc. If you could offer the next best thing to owning your own house, I think people would go for it.
There would be much more community linked to people having extra time due to not working or not working as many hours. Now, not having enough to do in the day is bad but most people have these huge dreams for retirement and this would just allow them to do some of these things now instead. Also more volunteering, looking after elderly relatives etc.
I don't think that private car ownership would be a thing. There would be a big system like Uber who you could call rides on. There would be a cheaper option, say if ten people wanted to go to the city centre at the same time, they would have to walk to a hub and then the van would pick everyone up, like public transport but based on demand. It would be a status symbol to be able to call a car out just for you.
I think a lot more people would wfh getting the cost of transport and childcare down. Schools might even go remote, as there wouldn't be both parents working and so in theory they could help facilitate the lessons. Then teachers would have small classes of Sen kids like mine, key workers and vulnerable children. Kids would interact with others through volunteering groups with parents, or just playing out as there would be less cars and more parents around to keep an eye on them.
People will either hate this vision as it's so different to what we have now. Or they will like some parts. But what we have now can't continue.

What on earth are you on about. 1000 pounds per month would never allow people to access all that and if all these people are working less, where is the money coming from to fund the UBI? How do you imagine that UBI would change the housing market in the way you think it would rather than simply driving rents up as some people suddenly have an extra 1000 a month?

It’s 100% stupid. So many flaws it’s not really worth bothering discussing.

Sounds awful. What about all those jobs in the industries you are trying to collapse?

I think the main problem with paying people enough to live on without working (much) is that who would work and pay for it all, especially in the jobs that are essential, cost money, and don't generate money, eg emergency services?

Who does the jobs then lol? Answers phones, works in shops, doctors dentist nurses care etc? What the fuck are you on about 😂

They've piloted this is many countries but to my knowledge nobody has actually introduced it after the piloting period

It will never happen.

I love the ide but dont see how it would work practically.

For example, I work in a massively understaffed area (mental health care) if i dodnt need to work full time, I wouldn't, nor would the majority of my colleagues. How would we staff job roles like this? There is already a shortage of health care staff.

Also, where would the money come from to fund this idea?

£1000 per month would in no way be enough, unless all housing was extremely subsidised.

Its essentially what in work benefits are, money for nothing, it'll depress wages even more and lots of people will just give up work, as happened when in work benefits came in. The problem being it's paid from taxation but isn't taxed income so you take a huge swathe of taxation of out the economy, at least if you were earning that money fair and square it'd be taxed at source and would be adding to the general pot rather than just depleting it.

I think the thought process is AI taking over a lot of those jobs. According to many on mumsnet in 10 years AI will be doing most of the jobs. Don't know if I buy it honestly.

Sounds awful!

In work benefits is money for nothing? I work full time and get benefits because my wage is not considered enough to live on. Whose fault is that?

A robot doctor dentist or care assistant, fireman, customer service (no one accepts an automated response), decorating, plumbing, building?

Computers can do tech, finance, analysis jobs but fuck all practical really

There's another thread going where posters are saying that AI will in fact be doing all those jobs. Again, don't know if I buy it but I know nothing about it to be honest and these people seem pretty sure.

I'm really interested in UBI and the places that have trialled it, but as far as I can see the major flaw is who will do the low paid, unpopular jobs, can't all be fine by AI, who's going to work in care homes? Also I don't understand your housing plan, how is it funded etc?

All benefits are money for nothing. They just called them tax credits to make people feel better about themselves.

I feel fine about getting benefits. If employers paid more they wouldn't be needed. This way suits the government better though, rich people stay rich, poor people stay poor and workers pay for benefits through taxes.

I don’t understand how it doesn’t just create inflation so the UBI amount becomes essentially worthless.

Most jobs are absolute bollocks. People slog their guts out all their lives doing meaningless activities with ridiculous job titles simply to keep a roof over their heads.
The robots are coming and human labour will be redundant.
We have to find a new way to live that isn't structured solely on waged employment.

I often see it mentioned on mn but don’t get how it doesn’t just take people out of work by disincentivising

If you can get paid for not doing work instead.

Currently benefits are at about half population and tax payers a bit lower, so that would be 100% for first and lower for second. I don’t get how it works without causing tax take issues

I suppose it's the same way as benefits. If you get to keep all your UBI and also earn a full time wage you'll have more money. As a working person getting UC, I work because I'm better off by doing so. If I quit work and lived entirely on UC I'd be worse off by about £800 a month.

Schools might even go remote, as there wouldn't be both parents working and so in theory they could help facilitate the lessons.

There is so much wrong with this.

Apart from the fact that jobs need to be done by someone so it's not as simple as both parents just suddenly not working.

Firstly, what about the social aspect of school? Remote learning can't replicate that.

Secondly, what if parents can't/won't facilitate lessons?

Thirdly, this would hugely disadvantage women as history tells us it would be women picking up the slack.

I'd hate my DS having remote education, what a horrible unsociable world. Thank god he's only got a year of school left!

Why would you not have a car? That's just like taking a bus and I can't fit a fortnightly shop on a bus