Universal basic income and what it may look like

[porkpiesinthepark]

I've been thinking for a while about the criticism of UBI and I think it's due to people not being able to imagine the government trying to 'match' peoples wages. In my opinion, it never will but there will be alternatives to what we have now, which will be able to offer something better.

So say the UBI is £1000 a month for a single person.
We could change the housing market to allow much more public housing with rents set at an affordable level, much more stability, no private landlords and the option to customise/ change your home. Let's face it, home ownership is out of reach for the majority at present. I don't find people are dying to own their own homes but desperate to be out of the instability of the private rental market, out of parents houses, out of house shares etc. If you could offer the next best thing to owning your own house, I think people would go for it.
There would be much more community linked to people having extra time due to not working or not working as many hours. Now, not having enough to do in the day is bad but most people have these huge dreams for retirement and this would just allow them to do some of these things now instead. Also more volunteering, looking after elderly relatives etc.
I don't think that private car ownership would be a thing. There would be a big system like Uber who you could call rides on. There would be a cheaper option, say if ten people wanted to go to the city centre at the same time, they would have to walk to a hub and then the van would pick everyone up, like public transport but based on demand. It would be a status symbol to be able to call a car out just for you.
I think a lot more people would wfh getting the cost of transport and childcare down. Schools might even go remote, as there wouldn't be both parents working and so in theory they could help facilitate the lessons. Then teachers would have small classes of Sen kids like mine, key workers and vulnerable children. Kids would interact with others through volunteering groups with parents, or just playing out as there would be less cars and more parents around to keep an eye on them.
People will either hate this vision as it's so different to what we have now. Or they will like some parts. But what we have now can't continue.

I think ubi doesn't have to be this elaborate plan because we're already doing something close to it. The ubi could simply be what people in benefits get now except there's no condition to it (like jobseekers where you have to search for x amount of hours to get it). So not 1000 a month but less (as is paid currently...and rises with inflation).

Then further amount if seeking work, working, disabled, etc which has to undergo the checks and balances we currently have (although it needs to be re-evaluated to be fit for purpose).

As for housing, private slum landlords and instability need to be stopped but I don't know how exactly.

So the idea of where the money comes from would be that companies would still make profits, but they wouldn't need workers as AI/ robots would be doing the majority. Therefore as 'compensation' for laying off 90% of their work force, they would have to pay taxes to pay for UBI.

If you are interested in this topic OP, I would recommend reading the book 'utopia for realists' which discusses UBI in depth, but in a really accessible way. I don't necessarily agree with all his ideas, but very thought provoking.

Any UBI system requires co operation and people to have decent morals and be community minded. Have you checked out the human race lately ?

@Theunamedcat you would have to get your shopping delivered, there would be no option to go into an actual grocery shop.

I think you'd have to pay more if the job market shrinks due to AI, if there aren't any jobs how can people look for work. Or just have a huge proportion of people in poverty.

@Beezknees in a way though, what are we preparing children for if the majority of them will not work in a similar environment? Why do we think kids have to work side by side when we work remotely and don't see a human outside of our immediate family for days?

This approach assumes people don't enjoy working.
What about those of us who enjoy having a career and enjoy our jobs?

Surely the market would adapt if the majority of people were unemployed.
Bananas wouldn't stay at £1.50 a bunch for very long if no one could afford it. The price would drop, as would everything else.

@DollyTrolly I do too, and I work in a pretty AI proof industry. But lots of people just work to pay bills and would give it up tomorrow if they could.

I certainly don't plan to live like that. Remember Covid? Humans crave human interaction. When we were all forced to stay at home, it didn't work.

Why do we think kids have to work side by side when we work remotely and don't see a human outside of our immediate family for days?

You're making so many sweeping generalisations and assumptions.

This is the reality of many peoples lives. There's are lots of people who work and socialise with people, in person regularly.

I find it difficult to envisage as its a real change from now.

I dont get where the money comes from or what impact it would have on inflation.

I think the more likely way we are headed is a modern twist on the workhouse with food, accommodation and a small allowance for fun, in exchange for doing crap busy work that makes those not in the workhouse feel like the inhabitants arent getting a free ride.

I think people would work a few hours on the side - so most painters, gardeners, plumbers, drivers woud go out of business and also this money wouldn't be declared so no tax from it. Unless you found a way to police this - which they don't now so can't see it happening then.

I meant this is not the reality of many people lives

If the jobs market was a functional free market the “low paid unpopular jobs” would become very well paid.

Beezknees yes it is essentially money for nothing. You don't work for it? You haven't earnt it. Your employer pays you for working not the government.

That wall of text from the OP summarized in one word. Communism. No one owns anything, everyone gets a few scraps to live on.

Sometimes, AIBU is like stumbling into the sixth form common room. Now, back to the real world….

Don't you think someone working full time shouldn't have to claim UC?

I don't see it as money for nothing, I see it as just what I'm owed and what I should actually be paid for doing my job.

Once you factor in extra payments for disability etc it would look almost exactly like the current welfare state, which for all it’s flaws does aim to provide a basic standard of living for everyone with disincentivising work.

It all sounds so sterile and boring.

Remote working, remote learning, shopping delivered .......

If people want to live like that then fine but for lots of people it's their idea of hell.

I think the point OP is trying to make is the money will be enough to live on and that's it. If people wanted luxury and treats then they'd have to work for it

*without

Just to say I don't think this idea is a good one or feasible, but I don't think what we have now is a utopia either.
Two adults working full time jobs, two children in childcare 8-6, all to pay for a house we're in 6.30- bedtime and briefly in the morning. Flying out the house again on weekends, too busy for hobbies, seeing friends, elderly relatives. Too busy for our own health or wellbeing to be a priority.
Just so we can keep paying and paying and paying... for a house.

I’m not sure you know how economies, markets and supply chains work. In this utopian scenario that you paint, there would be no bananas to buy. Because they would be exported only to countries where there is a market and where people can afford to pay for them. You know, the market? It works wonders for making things available to the masses.

You haven’t invented a novel, new idea here to solve every problem. It was tried in 70 years and came crashing down in 1989.