To be sad about what dc have said about relationships?

[bitsadreally]

I have two sons, 14 & 16. I split with their dad about 10 years ago and have been single ever since, as has he. Both dc are adamant that they won't have children and will live alone, which makes me feel really sad, especially the latter part. It also makes me feel guilty - as if ex and I have given them such an awful model of relationships that they have been put off for life. It's not something that's discussed a lot, but when it is, I feel shit.

The relationship while we were together was okayish. We split due to infidelity on his part, which the dc have never known about (obviously it didn't last) but the marriage had fizzled out by then really anyway. They see ex very regularly and, while he's not great, there have been no major dramas. The split itself seemed to go remarkably smoothly as far as the dc were concerned - no tears, no rows and ex saw them daily at the marital home for the first year, which seemed to aid the transition. They never begged us to get back together or anything like that. They stay at his four nights per fortnight now, and I know they get fed up with moving stuff between houses but again, not a huge deal and ex only lives a 5 minute drive away (it's walkable but I do lots of driving back and fore when needed). Ex and I don't get on in that we don't really speak but there have been a number of events/incidents over the years where we have been together and civil and it's fine.

I just worry that in both staying single, which I know is unusual, we have failed to give a positive model of relationships and they think being on your own is normal and desirable. We also don't have a large extended family on either side so that doesn't help either. Neither ex nor I have large friendship groups that the dc benefit from- he has friends he sees through his hobby but the dc are never involved, and I am focused on work with a very small group of friends. We moved just before splitting and had had a larger circle of family-based friends before then, but one was the person ex cheated with and, while it would have been possible to keep in touch with the others after we moved (20 minute drive), I didn't want to as it reminded me of his cheating and they knew her, so I essentially ghosted them all, which I regret now and, again, this feels like I have let the dc down.

Both dc seem to have a goodish circle of friends. Ds1 is part of a large group and has never had what I would call a best friend (or b/gf) but seems very happy and is out quite a lot. Ds2 has a smaller circle and is out less and online more. He's more of a worry but, again, does seem happy.

I just worry that they are both consigning themselves to a lonely life because of us. Does anyone have experience of similar issues and how have they worked out?

Mine both said this at various points, I think if it gets a reaction, even an involuntary one, they seize on it. As parents I don’t think our relationship is terrible, like everyone we have our shortcomings but we’re still together and we tried to be unified in our approach to parenting.

Eldest has accused us of not parenting our youngest and saying he has had to do it. He hasn’t but doesn’t like to acknowledge that he and his brother are very different in temperament so what worked for one, didn’t necessarily work for the other.

More worrying is that youngest said that all women want you for is your money and what you can provide. We did ask if he’d been watching Andrew Tate on YouTube, he says not. We’re on a loop explaining that the internet is full of extremes, not the light and shade of normal people living normal lives.

Hopefully they’ll both meet good partners and settle down.

I just worry that in both staying single, which I know is unusual, we have failed to give a positive model of relationships and they think being on your own is normal and desirable

Why do you assume it isn't normal or desirable though? Being single and childfree by choice doesn't necessarily have to mean a sad, lonely life. I have single, childfree friends who are very happy and contented and if I'm being totally honest I sometimes envy them.

Look at it this way, you have raised two young men who feel secure enough in themselves that they don't forsee needing a partner to 'complete' them. They are very young so who knows how they will feel five or ten years from now, but even if they don't change their minds as long as they're happy why does it matter?

@neverbeenskiing

True. OP is totally projecting her own sadness here. There is a lot of joy in a single and carefree life. The goal here is happiness, however that manifests really doesn’t matter.

They are Gen Z.
They are completely free of ridiculous social and religious constraints.
They can live their lives any way they please without worrying about what some elements of society regard as "normal".

All 4 of my children have said they will NOT be having children.

They believe they are too much work and sacrifice!

I have told them that they should do whatever they like, no pressure from us either way.

I would just nod and say "whatever you like pet", don't take it personally I think it could be a stage they go through, but so what, if that is their choice.

Yes, my 40 year old son and his partner have said for years they are not getting married or having children. They have been together 15 years.
Its nothing to do with my own divorce he said. It's because he can't see how marriage or children will make their lives any better. The economy is in a mess, the world is in a mess, they just want to make the best of their own life.
They both stand to inherit quite a lot of money from various people so they can't see how marriage will benefit either of them.
Neither are very fond of children.
They do however, love cats and dogs and have lots of them.
I can't see a problem with their thinking, I think they are very sensible not to do these things just to conform.
I live on my own, have no intention of ever getting married either and I'm very happy.

I'm really glad I started this. So many positive points that have made me realise I've been looking at things wrongly and projecting - even though I am actually happy and have had the best decade with the boys just the three of us (and me having lovely alone time/freedom when they go to their dad's!).

I am sorry that I phrased comments about single people thoughtlessly and what I wrote about it not being normal or desirable isn't what I think. In fact, at the end of last year a young woman I work with was dumped by her bf and she was upset at work so I was being a shoulder to cry on. She actually said 'I don't want to be just a single woman...' and it has really stuck with me. Apart from being tactless, which I overlooked as she was upset and not thinking, I couldn't believe someone with so much going for her in terms of youth, personality, talent, looks could be so appalled at the thought of being single for any amount of time. She hooked up with someone else a couple of weeks later and is now moving in with him. Obviously they may be the loves of each other's lives, but I do find it sad that she couldn't be alone even for a short amount of time. Obviously that's judgey in a different way and contradicts my OP completely!

Don’t worry. My parents have been married 40 years, reasonably happily, and I said until my mid twenties that I’d never get married/have kids. 32 now, married for three years and TTC my first. Teenagers say things for the sake of sounding different or controversial sometimes.

They are 14 and 16, I really wouldn't give it much headspace! And I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to live alone either.

They may or may not change their minds when older - who knows? But, OP, why are you suggesting that being single is "not normal"? What is this obsession that everyone needs to be in a relationship? I've been married a long time, but have single friends and married friends - we are all middle aged and nobody judges anyone else. All that matters is that your kids become happy adults - if that does include living alone, then good for them!

A desire not to marry and not to have kids is far from stupid.

My 15 year old has very earnestly told me that she wants to remain single, have no children and focus on her horses. Husband and I have been together since teenagers, huge families on both sides, she's had lots of different loving relationships modelled for her by all members of her family. It's nothing to do with anything you've done, teens are trying to figure out what kind of adults they want to be without any actual adult experience to base that on. It's fine and normal.

And if my daughter does in fact grow up to be a single, childfree horse enthusiast... As long as she's happy, I'll be delighted for her. Happiness should be the goal, not living to a script. If both your boys do end up single and childfree, with happy and full lives, would that really be the most awful thing in the world?

My parents had a horrendous divorce.
They literally fought over everything.
I'm one of 6 and not one of us have ever married.
We've all had long relationship ( mine in its 35th year) but that divorce put us all of marriage forever

My dd says the same and we have a great marriage! 🤷🏼‍♀️ I expect she'll change her mind, but for now I think it's great, better than simpering after meeting Prince Charming!

I didn’t read her post that way at all. She is concerned that their parents choices may have influenced them in an important way. We all have those fears in one way or another. Give OP some grace. Let’s try to be kind and not immediately want to find fault.

They’re so young though, they may well change their minds

Teens say all sorts OP- based on how they feel that moment- I would take it with a pinch of salt

They're 14 and 16. Why are you giving any headspace to this? Even if they never change their minds and don't end up partnered up - by then they'll have some experience of the world.