We need to start talking about population decline

[user4567890754]

The first signs of it are starting to show in the UK, with primary school closures. Secondary school closures will follow.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/11158f12-0133-11ee-a364-04e704863f75?shareToken=5ef47b2b4776be376153089146c8bacf

Italy is a few years ahead of us.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/01/plunging-birthrate-threatens-italian-schools

Japan shows where every country is headed - towards a crisis where they are on the brink of being unable to maintain social functions.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/04/13/asia/japan-population-decline-record-drop-intl-hnk/index.html

And yet there are still people who think that we have a problem with overpopulation. It’s the opposite.

All the people thinking population decline is a great thing due to climate change obviously don't want a pension or functioning health service when they are older then....we can solve the climate crisis, but once the population has declined and we have a top heavy older population needing care and nobody to care for them, then that is a problem you can't solve for another 18 years and not without changing what will then be an entrenched opinion that kids are unaffordable, ruin your chance of financial security and it's selfish to have them.

Unless you like having your arse rigorously wiped by a malfunctioning robot....

Are you ok with always increasing the population?

What does that look like in terms of how we live

People keep saying this - who will look after the old.
Read the thread. Fewer babies born means fewer elderly people going forward.

At least they are building and contributing something, and providing purpose and jobs. It’s not about blame, it’s about solutions. The wealthy elderly need to be paying for far, far more.

I’m talking about the sort of people who take control of more and more land to build estates full of tiny houses and flats to cram in workers to staff more and more factories producing more and more tat they deliberately convince us we need.

What’s scary is that one day there will be artificial bodies we can download our brains into. Then we’ll never ever die.

@Famzonhol so how have you missed the numerous posts about too many babies, breeders, etc?

Before too long there'll be caring robots that are indistinguishable from human care workers. They're already using them in Japan, but theirs look like bears.

Yes eventually, but what about the people already alive?

Read the thread. Fewer babies born means fewer elderly people going forward.

The thread is about the interim period though where we have too many old people...

GCalltheway · Today 14:56
MrsSkylerWhite · Today 12:05

Stalkedbyzombies · Today 11:26
Finding carers for the elderly is already a crisis situation and getting worse. That is why there is attention drawn to elderly not being discharged from hospitals for months because even though care packages are drawn up, there are not enough staff to implement them”.

Quite. Brexit.

Shall be 60 next spring. I’m doing everything I possibly can to stay healthy. Eating right, exercising, cutting back/out the alcohol, learning new things etc. because I dread to think what a godawful state social care will be in in 10/20 years, if it exists at all.

“You should have been living like that anyway!!

Goodness me that is surely a benefit of brexit right there, personal responsibility and not constantly relying on the nanny state/others to wipe your arse.”

I have and do, you dolt, which is why I very specifically said stay healthy. It did not prevent me from having cancer in 2016 when I relied on the nanny state to remove my breast. It may not prevent me from suffering from any number of other cancers, Alzheimer’s or other conditions that may result in my arse needing to be wiped. It would be quite nice to know that the system I and my husband have contributed to generously over the years might just be able to provide that.

Two primaries probably closing in Hackney that well-known underpopulated borough. https://www.hackneycitizen.co.uk/2023/03/28/two-hackney-primary-schools-closure-four-merge-fall-pupil-numbers-funding-cuts/

We can't just keep increasing the population to keep things running, because while people may argue at what point there will be too many people, nobody can argue that at some point there will be too many people. So it's better that we bite the bullet and deal with it now instead of being cowardly and kicking the can down the road for our children or our children's children to deal with.

Yes the issue of decreasing won’t go away so what do people envisage when they say we can’t decrease

Well then we need to all start making some serious sacrifice.
Tackle inequality, redistribute wealth and space and a return to multi generational living.
It's not going to happen because nobody wants to give up what they already have.

How would you solve it?

A point no one has mentioned to address the issue of housing contributing to the problem, many more families now with the standard 2 children live across 2 homes.

This is no doubt contributing to the housing crisis. I say this as a contributor.

I'm not saying it should go back to the old days of grim and bear it, but the government needs to include this in their plans for adequate affordable housing.

I definitely agree that social housing should be reassessed once circumstances change. I know a couple who live in a 3 bed semi, no children at home. They periodically have their adult child move in when child has a row with their partner of the moment. Child also has a council flat.

One of their neighbours are also a couple in a 3 bed house. It's very common and is a real drain on resources.

Once dependents move out, couples/singles should be moved into 1 bed properties.

Right to buy should also be abolished. It's absurd.

Agree 💯

Wealth tax. I say this as a former conservative voter.

As a starter, we should transform council tax so that it better reflects house values… ie 1% of value a year.

I’ll get flamed because everyone wants someone else to be the one to pay, but given that 78% of housing wealth is held by over 50s it’s a much fairer way of sharing the burden across generations than income alone. We already pay income tax and CGT on other assets, why not homes?

So your thinking is that by making the “rich” (ie anyone over 50 who owns their home) pay more tax, you’ll allow poorer people to have more children.

This helps the planet how?

One point is that this is not a vision of the future, but of the present, nearly past. It’s the result of the huge baby boomer cohort, who are now mostly in retirement.

It will, as usual, be my generation, the xennials, for whom action will be taken and who will end up paying the consequences for boomers.

When the boomers have passed on some of the pressure will ease for the current gen z’s I think.

But it's really not, your way of thinking is a false economy. Also I'd rather my arse was wiped with a robot than a person tbh! However nobel, its not a great job for anyone.