We need to start talking about population decline

[user4567890754]

The first signs of it are starting to show in the UK, with primary school closures. Secondary school closures will follow.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/11158f12-0133-11ee-a364-04e704863f75?shareToken=5ef47b2b4776be376153089146c8bacf

Italy is a few years ahead of us.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/01/plunging-birthrate-threatens-italian-schools

Japan shows where every country is headed - towards a crisis where they are on the brink of being unable to maintain social functions.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/04/13/asia/japan-population-decline-record-drop-intl-hnk/index.html

And yet there are still people who think that we have a problem with overpopulation. It’s the opposite.

This is also what I assumed!

The very last thing we need is more children. The nhs is fit to collapse, we have run out of housing here, and I don’t know where op found the reports but schools here are bursting. We have a population explosion - of nearly a million people just this year. We are NOT struggling for people. It’s just entirely inaccurate to say we need even more people.

We need to mobilise the healthy on benefits. We need to mobilise those lounging waiting for refugee status and we have to incentivise older people to continue to work. That is the answer.

and I don’t know where op found the reports but schools here are bursting.

they aren't though @GCalltheway.. Do you have evidence to show they are bursting?

@GCalltheway i would be fascinated to know how many children you have

Lack of population health is an issue

The schools near us were bursting around a decade ago. I also assumed that was still the case until I was shocked to hear about the sharp reversal. In our area, it was mainly caused by people being priced out and moving out of the area, some social housing tenants being rehoused in Derby and Stoke, often against their will. and Eastern European families moving out at the start of the pandemic. There wer also people in rentals who simply could not afford the soaring rents who moved to cheaper areas to start a family.

While it is desirable for people to have as healthy a lifestyle as possible, EVERYBODY who has a disability is equally deserving of the care and help that they need. The concept of the 'deserving disabled' and 'undeserving disabled' is even worse than the old concept of the 'deserving poor' and 'undeserving poor'.

And those who have the healthiest lifestyles are the most likely to end up in the category of those who are disabled as a result of extreme old age.

The reason why more people need carers than in the past is not because people are less healthy at the same age, but because more people live to be old. I am NOT suggesting that we all drop dead at 69 (the average life expectancy when the NHS was set up) to reverse this!!!! But we also should not blame people for their health problems, and 'punish' them by denying care.

What is needed and has already started to happen is for more medical research and expertise to be put into preventing and curing, not just fatal diseases, but those that cause chronic ill-health and disability. There have recently been some promising developments with regard to at least slowing down dementia, though a lot more needs to be done,

The issue isn’t just longevity it is the expectation thar everything will be paid for. From cradle to grave everything our going to be free. It’s simply purely mathematically impossible - and it is going to be increasingly obvious to all, that the young can not continue to shoulder the responsibility.

I have two children I can afford to house, feed and look after adequately.

I wonder whether they will have children and be able to do the same

they will incur some serious cat bum from their mother if not

Thank you!

All these adults thinking it would be good if we just died out, are you ok with being looked after by one robot per 50 people in your nursing home? 🙄 if human are so bad, why do you still exist?

First point, meh, if it means we can massively reverse climate change then ok . Second point, if humans are bad, then they're bad, doesn't affect whether we're still here or not (sadly).

I have two children I can afford to house, feed and look after adequately.

So you're fine with people having dc if they can house them?

People generally need to step up and help themselves so there are carers available for those that are disabled not through obesity and bad life style choices but through unavoidable situations. Too many people do not take care of themselves, and expect the NHS and the state to pick up the multi billion pound bill.

Are we going to blame people for poverty & mental health problems as well?

@Oliotya

I'm not against people having dc😀

There won’t be fifty people per robot in the nursing home if the population drops. Thankfully!

Who wouldn’t be?

You new to the thread @Famzonhol? Just keep reading back!

Not new to thread but I feel some points are best repeated.

Sure, but I think there is something interesting that goes on with this psychologically.

I live in an place that has had some serious issues in recent years with medical access. It was bad before covid but is now far worse. Many people have realized that there is a real chance that they may not be able to get timely care, even in an ER - that a broken leg or a UTI could be something they cannot easily get seen for. We had a woman die recently waiting in an ER for about 12 hours even though she was clearly in distress, the issue seems to have been that there was literally no one free to help her.

I've heard several different people since then comment that they are being very careful about things they previously took for granted, even with relation to sports in one case. It's like a penny has dropped that they can't be sure they will be able to turn over health issues to someone who will fix them or at least ease their pain.

Of course maybe they should have considered all this in any case, but that doesn't seem to be how it works.

This. As if having a working classes waged job from 16 to 65 allowed you to pay sufficient tax to sustain you for 25 years on state pensions, let alone any hospital stays, GP visits, prescriptions, carers, free public transport etc. And not every pensioner even worked at all, let alone PT or FT. My friends dad, ‘worked’ cash in hand as a tradie. He was an alcoholic and heavy smoker who claimed every benefit going. In his later years he developed COPD and and has been in and out of hospital for extended stays multiple times. He’s the type to be complaining about foreigners. Every foreigner I know has contributed more and taken out less than him.

And he has a council house too.

Anyway - people blaming the disabled or the old or even the lazy are blaming the wrong people. It’s the narcissists who want to make more and more money, build more and more houses, control more and more workers that we should blame.

And I am no communist, believe me. I don’t know what to do about these awful people though. Their raison d’etre is to make money and they don’t give a fuck how many factories they have to build or trees they have to cut down or resources they have to hoard and control.

I think people will be expected to work for much much longer, we’ll have to get better at using technology to replace workers and I think the government (of any stripe) will put a lot of pressure on people who are economically inactive to get to work (reducing welfare, increasing the age of pension dramatically etc). The UK faces a particular problem because it’s just not particularly productive. It’s unaffordable to do any less.

You can’t make people have more children but you can make life uncomfortable for anyone who isn’t economically productive (I know thats an extreme cold thing to say, I mean in pounds not in the sum of someone’s contribution to the people around them).

Also the people who can’t accept that old people have to die at some point, whether they like it or not. I say that as someone who will be old one day and possibly won’t like it but I’ll have to die at some point.