The problem with Brexit is we didn't Brexit hard enough

[Middlelanehogger]

The EU itself was just the start.

But there are still more institutions which still influence our laws and make it impossible to actually achieve "taking back control".

If anything, we've left the trading bloc (which had economic benefits) but stayed in many of the legal institutions (which retain control over us).

So which body do we leave next - the ECHR? The ECJ? Keenly awaiting responses 😘

And yet 99.99% of the population have more than the average number of legs. Try harder.

Red I wouldn't be able too explain much if you have no context to pin it too

Mission creep

Is that the same mission creep that said that the Eu are going to form an army that we would all be powerlessly conscripted into?

Or Turkey joining the Eu?

These things were said to be upon us if we remain, and yet they don’t look at all likely seven years on from the vote.

How can you claim mission creep if the things we were supposed to be creeping towards were infact untrue in the first place?

Rolls eyes.

Ok.

Carry on.

Some people like to live in a simple fantasy world. Everyone else has to deal with reality of not living in a bubble or a time warp for them.

I spent five years arguing the point. And I'm wise enough to see that there's some people who are simply divorced from the concept of distance, supply chains and other people also doing the best for their own country.

Red during the time of the vote and after many very eloquent leave voters went into the great detail as to why they voted leave.
Unfortunately the response was immovable like a bricks wall no one could penetrate.

👏🏻

I'll just assume this is a wind up OP. Although , considering you've burnt all your boats perhaps you could leave the planet? Or even the solar system.

Who knows what sunlit uplands await in Alpha Centauri.

Lonelycrab
Or Turkey joining the Eu?

Ukraine might join the EU in 10/15 years' time - population of over 40 million and the poorest country in Europe even before the war started.

Yes. They did argue.

They argued that the Good Friday Agreement didn't matter and wasn't their problem. Til it was and even the US intervened.

They argued we could get trade deals with the rest of the world. Til they couldn't.

They argued that we could just decide on a deal and the EU would agree. Til the EU said 'uh no'.

They argued it was just remainers being difficult and pessimistic. Til red tape just stopped businesses trading backwards and forwards at all cos it wasn't worth the headache.

They argued that a hard brexit wasn't going to be a big deal and wouldn't affect the border. Til they had massive queues at all the ports and the tunnel.

They said no one would vote to be poorer. Til we were.

Yep. As I say. Fantasists. Utter fantasists.

I'm done with arguing. It's pointless.

Remind me about the process of joining the EU, how long other nations have been in it and what the criteria are. And who has the power to veto.

Oh yes. Reality.

Ukraine won't join within the next 20 years at the very least, despite talk. It won't be ready. It's more likely to be 30 before it's a realistic proposal.

👏👏👏👏👏

RedToothBrush
Remind me about the process of joining the EU, how long other nations have been in it and what the criteria are. And who has the power to veto.
Oh yes. Reality

The reality is that you are relying on the government of the day to exercise its veto - and vote in accordance with your wishes.

But not one single person in the country, not one, voted to leave the Single Market or the Customs Union

We quite clearly voted to leave the single market:

June 12 2016
David Cameron confirmed that he will pull Britain out of the single market if there is a vote to leave the European Union at the upcoming referendum...
The prime minister said: “What the British public will be voting for is to leave the EU and leave the single market.”
https://www.politico.eu/article/david-cameron-bbc-andrew-marr-ill-pull-uk-out-of-the-single-market-after-brexit-eu-referendum-vote-june-23-consequences-news/

June 3 2016
5 takeaways from David Cameron’s first Brexit TV ‘debate’

3. Single market, single market, single market
If Cameron had one job Thursday night, it was to bring the debate back to the economy.
The Remain campaign clearly believe Gove and Johnson have committed a major strategic error by calling for Britain to leave the single market, with Cameron returning to it again and again. “I keep going on about the single market, but it’s so important,” he said at one point, in a sentence that summed up his entire debate strategy.
https://www.politico.eu/blogs/on-media/2016/06/5-takeaways-from-david-camerons-first-brexit-tv-debate/

On the question of the SM and CU : many leave campaigners were stating quite explicitly that the UK was not leaving these bodies. People saying otherwise were lumped in with Project Fear.

Johnson , Farage , Daniel Hannan all said trade would go on exactly as before. Then the Good Friday Agreement , of course they knew it would cause problems. But they decided to plunge on regardless.

One Brexiloon ( Hoey?) said it wasn't written in stone anyway. Gove said it was ' treason'. Boris Johnson said it was ' just a footnote in history' . So they could just ignore it and hang the consequences. And here we are.

Now...Will Ukraine join the EU in 15 years? Not a hope. The lads learnt a hard lesson with Greece joining the Euro. Not to mention Brexit. Rapid expansion was probably the EU's major flag in retrospect. Of which Britain was a great proponent lest we forget.

So , the EU is not perfect but it's the only game in town.

*flaw not flag..

But not one single person in the country, not one, voted to leave the Single Market or the Customs Union

Hansard - House of Commons Wednesday 15 June 2016

[David Cameron] The Prime Minister

I am very happy to agree with my hon. Friend. “In” means we remain in a reformed EU; “out” means we come out. As the leave campaigners and others have said, “out” means out of the EU, out of the European single market, out of the Council of Minister - out of all those things -
https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2016-06-15/debates/517E6CB0-162A-461D-A907-CD10C3FA7382/Engagements?highlight=single%20market#contribution-2C1D076D-5F0E-4F7A-A16D-8E40A8BA4833

So you haven't noticed the empty supermarket shelves a few weeks ago when no vegetables were delivered to the UK (whilst they pretty much continued to the EU) or the long queues at petrol stations because of the lack of lorry drivers? What about EU grants that used to benefit your community (cycling paths, Book Start) which have now stopped coming? Or the delay in being seen at your local hospital because EU workers went back home? Or the fact the Britain paid the highest energy prices in Europe last winter?

On the question of the SM and CU : many leave campaigners were stating quite explicitly that the UK was not leaving these bodies.

22 February 2016
EU referendum: Ukip leader Nigel Farage says he doesn’t want to be part of the European Single Market

Leader of the UK Independence Party Nigel Farage has said that he doesn't want the United Kingdom to be a part of the the European Single Market, but instead wants the UK to "stand on its own two feet".
https://www.cityam.com/eu-referendum-ukip-leader-nigel-farage-says-he-doesnt-want-to-be-part-of-the-european-single-market/

12 April 2016
Michael Gove gambles as he rejects single market membership

Today, in a lengthy, cerebral and frequently humorous speech, Michael Gove ate his cake. He announced that the UK would not apply for membership of the single market but would instead seek a free trade agreement with the EU.
https://www.newstatesman.com/business/economics/2016/04/michael-gove-gambles-he-rejects-single-market-membership

13 June 2016
MailOnline looks at what the future could hold for the UK if we vote OUT on June 23

Vote Leave have repeatedly insisted during the campaign that we should exit the single market - a free trade area for goods and services - and establish a bespoke package of terms.

Full membership of the area could involve contributing to the Brussels budget and accepting the principle of freedom of movement, which would hamper the ability of UK ministers to bring immigration under control.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3639242/Brexit-nightmare-brave-new-world-MailOnline-looks-future-hold-UK-vote-June-23.html

At the end of the day, more people didn't want to be in the EU than did. Which is why Brexit won the vote. If the EU was that good, people wouldn't have voted to leave it. You can't blame public ignorance. It's the same public that vote in every general election. You either believe in democracy, and accept that votes will sometimes go the way you don't want them to, or you don't believe in democracy.

You can believe in democracy and you can also believe that people didn't understand that voting against something is different to voting for something.

What was undemocratic was the lack of public vote on what should follow our exit from the EU.

Therein lies the issue.

All you Brexit people need to wake up to the fact that the UK provides services and had the best deal in the world for that. No better existed than that with the EU. It made us rich.

You have supported a deal that is goods only, and the worst kind of expensive, trade barrier creating deal so it's harder for your fellow British people who run a business to export.

You've made it harder for farmers to maintain decent prices or face competition from the rest of the world that doesn't match our standards for animal welfare,

And there are not enough trade deals the UK government can make in the next fifteen years to make it good.

You cab believe in democracy and still maintain that the whole process was a shitshow and a lot of people were misled and manipulated by those with a lot to gain.
democracy doesn’t mean shut up and put up.

ichundich
Britain paid the highest energy prices in Europe last winter

Not according to these charts - different charts for electricity and gas (residential);
https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/03/29/energy-crisis-in-europe-which-countries-have-the-cheapest-and-most-expensive-electricity-a

Half of the constituent nations of the UK voted to Remain. Chances are, if posters here are living in Scoand or NI, their neighbours, family, and friends voted Remain. Another delusion is the idea that the entire UK voted Tory. Again, exceptions are Scotland and NI.

You expect Scotland and NI to put up with what you allege the EU does to the UK. Why is that?