Is this too much lunch for a diet?

[Hatehooveringsomuch]

Trying to shift a couple of stone.
I eat v healthily, but probably too much, I don’t work out normally, but have started again.
I’m a person who has to cut back a lot and not eat much/work out daily to stay slim.
In the past when I was v slim, I went to the gym and had less carbs & smaller portions. I’m trying fasting also.
I’ve had no breakfast, just got in from school run, morning work and walking the dog.
Is this too much?
There’s two tins of tuna and two crackers, the rest is just salad? Assuming that’s okay?
Dinner is broccoli, cauliflower, carrots & chicken, piece of fruit afterwards.
I’m attempting to cut right back on carbs, my portions seem big though 😂but I’m hungry
Desperate to lose weight

I do think most people who find themselves overweight have emotional issues around food, because without over eating you do not put on weight, and you do not over eat unless you have a particular reason for doing so. Plenty of people eat shitty diets, nutritionally speaking, but are a healthy BMI. There is something that separates them from people with equally shitty diets with high BMIs, and usually it is a psychological/emotional thing.

@Pollis I agree with a lot of what you say but my take on it is that it's about food quality (as well as quantity of course.)

You say you do a lot of work on the emotional side of eating. I'm not being rude here, but did your uni degree in nutrition cover that?

You're very into the 'therapy side' of eating and I'm curious!

I have to agree that over-eating and poor-eating can be emotionally driven, but at the same time it's not always (and clients shouldn't be made to feel they have an emotional issue if they haven't.)

Some people are just plain glutenous!

Yes it did, and any nutritionist worth their salt these days is going to cover that too. If they don't they aren't doing their job properly.

The approach "people are just gluttonous" is the one consistently touted by mainstream obesity tackling initiatives. How is that working out so far? Well, is it?

X posts!

Again I'm not being rude and don't know your training, but I do therapeutic work and it needs very careful handling.

I think there is a difference between people who clearly are emotional eaters and are addicted to food- an addictive personality (like others are to drugs, smoking, gambling or booze) but there are plenty of people who are a couple of stones overweight who simply eat too much of everything, most of the time.

I know people who are overweight and simply eat too much (and often it's not that nutritious.)

I don't have a weight problem. (I did as a young teen and it was down to eating too much.) I eat everything. But in very small amounts.
90% of my food intake is highly nutritious but I don't deny myself cake or a dessert. But it will be a small portion and only once a week or so and homemade so it's not full of emulsifiers and thickeners etc and looks like it's made in a lab.

I think that's quite a specific take on it tbh. What about aging, menopause, hormonal imbalance, lack of exercise, portion size. Most people a couple of stone overweight have no idea they are doing anything that would contribute to weight gain.

Perhaps if people are clinically obese then yes there's always a psychological element.

Why do they eat too much of everything, that is the key point?

I think you just have to look through some of the threads on the weight loss section of MN to see how many people are struggling psychologically with food and the clear link between that and obesity.

Don't know

Maybe because they read on here that qualified nutritionists say its OK to eat doughnuts and ice cream 🤷‍♀️

Many people are just 'gluttonous'. I do think you are mistaken to label ALL /MOST overweight people as having emotional issues. It's not right.

The fact it's not working to recognise that is because most people dont acknowledge they are eating too much!

I see it with some friends of friends, extended family.
The amount they eat is often huge (it would be my main meal of the day with nothing else for the rest of the day or a very light evening meal.)

I see it on MN with the 'what did you eat today'- constant grazing on snacks, full of sugar, refined carbs, empty calories.

Some of my Mum's friends (in their 80s) are diabetic but still stuff away cream teas when they go out socialising, often several times week. They don't have emotional issues- they just like food!

You could call that an emotional issue I guess, if you want to say that the hit they get from the food outweighs the downside of the pounds going on their hips , so they keep ignoring the outcome.

So if you work on a therapy type basis, are you having success? Do your clients appreciate being told they have this issue and are they agreeable to what you are doing?

But I'd bet that a lot of those people aren't paying to see a private nutritionist because they know exactly what they're doing. The people who pay either have a specific medical need (for example trying a FODMAP diet under supervision) or know that they have issues around eating. I have a friend who runs a well respected psychiatric clinic and they have three nutritionists on staff because a lot of people are wanting that kind of support

Therapists, yes. Nutritionists aren't trained as therapists.

Why do they eat too much of everything, that is the key point?

Partly because they are ignorant about how much a normal portion is.

This is mainly because of the food industry, restaurants and supermarkets. They want to sell as much of everything as they can.

You know those ready meals- fish pie, shepherds pie, pizzas (especially pizza!)
Well, I would share some of the 'meal for one' serving fish pie. It would be far too much for me. I pad it out with lots of veg.

Likewise pizza - they are for 4 servings but lots of people have a whole pizza.

Look at places like Dominos and the way they promote large portions and Pizza Express. Is anyone ever given 1/4 of a pizza? Nope.

Pasta meals come with garlic bread or dough balls as a norm. Zillions of white carbs.

The food industry sets the tone of portions. People start eating that amount as the norm. Most people's diets are 60% ultraprocessed food.

The OP has already said it’s only small tins of tuna, so what you’re suggesting is basically a plate of undressed salad leaves with hardly any protein, which won’t provide much nutritional value and would leave most people hungry again within a very short space of time.

I lost over 5 stone whilst still having the odd doughnut and portion ice cream, and it's stayed off for years now despite my still eating those things (in moderation!). Saying everything is OK in moderation is not the same as me advising my clients to go nuts on the doughnuts and haribo and I think you know that full well.

Telling people to give up certain foods categorically does not work at a general population level as a long term weight loss strategy. If you don't want to eat a slice of freshly baked, home made cake because you don't like it, grand, crack on, don't eat it! If you don't want to eat cake because you're afraid you can't stop at once slice, that is what you need to deal with, not the cake itself.

I have an extremely healthy, completely balanced diet. I haven't cut out any food groups. I don't eat much processed food but then I never have because I've always cooked from scratch.

For what it's worth, the nutritionist I saw when I was recovering from anorexia was far more integral to my recovery (and more helpful) than the therapist I saw.

Then why do some people eat ultraprocessed foods frequently and remain slim, while others don't? Because those others eat too much, right?

You have to deal with the why of people eat too much before you deal with the what, and it isn't just down to foods being over processed and moreish. Because some people can eat those foods and remain at a healthy weight, and others cannot. The why is paramount. If it continues to be ignored then the obesity crisis is only going to get worse and worse.

It’s very easy to eat sugary and carby foods and want more of them. It’s also easy to mindlessly eat.

That’s one reason I joined Weightwatchers. To look at me you’d think I didn’t need to lose weight but over lockdown I put on a stone and was just over 11 stone at 5ft5. I went with two friends who at a size 16 and size 18-20 are definitely obese.

Weightwatchers is good because you get taught tricks and also shares what works for you whether it’s exercise, certain foods etc. Both the WW leaders (one who covered for her when she was on holiday) have a good attitude too, not too strict but encouraging! That really helps! The other leader who was at a class was awful, so strict and the class didn’t like her!

Then why do some people eat ultraprocessed foods frequently and remain slim, while others don't? Because those others eat too much, right?

Because they have a different microbiome. Study the Zoe research. And/Or they do more exercise.

You have to deal with the why of people eat too much before you deal with the what, and it isn't just down to foods being over processed and moreish. Because some people can eat those foods and remain at a healthy weight, and others cannot. The why is paramount. If it continues to be ignored then the obesity crisis is only going to get worse and worse.

You've ignored most of what I've posted which was about the food industry setting a level of portions.

As a nutritionist you will know that most people put on weight slowly by increasing their calories gradually, over time. Don't they say that eating a couple of (extra) biscuits everyday for a year (and not increasing calorie expenditure) can result in a stone weight gain in a year?

I wonder who your clients are? Are you promoting yourself as weight loss nutritionist? If you are and your clients can afford your services, you're getting a self-selecting bias if you website says 'I can help you lose weight - are you a yo-yo dieter?'

Most dieticians I know through my work (some very good ones who have won national awards like Marianne Williams) are seeing clients (as a PP said) who want help with IBS/FODMAP, or allergies.

There are plenty of weight loss coaches out there who aren't nutritionists but who work with clients on their weight. The client usually knows what they are doing wrongly and the qualified coach can help them.

If emotional-eating is your USP that's fine, but it's not the only reason people are overweight.

@Pollis
@DeliciouslyDecadent

Interesting conversation.

I love food, am a grazer, eat literally everything, including some but not a lot of ultra-processed food (I do love a doughnut, and would tend to get one from St John's Bakery rather than Aldi, but I'm not fooling myself that it would have fewer calories/less sugar). I'm menopausal and still slim, have never been overweight and never counted calories. Some is genetic, of course, but some, I think, because I actually love food enough to think about what I'm eating and enjoy it, so tend to be a natural moderator - in terms of both portion size (it generally ceases to be enjoyable past a certain point and becomes mindless) and overall dietary makeup - i.e. if I have something very rich one day, I'll tend to eat lightly the next, but if I'm having salad and tuna, I'm going to enjoy it, not chomp my way grimly though leaves and light mayo. I do think that far too many people adopt rigid dietary should and should nots and end up verging on orthorexia and diets they can't sustain.

I'm also interested @DeliciouslyDecadent in what kind of therapeutic work you do? Similarly to you pointing out to @Pollis about being a nutritionist, anyone from a massage therapist to a psychiatrist can say they do therapeutic work, and I did find 'some people are just gluttonous' to be an interesting statement from someone in that field.

So if you eat too much one day you restrict what you eat the next day. That sounds like pretty normal eating for someone who doesn't want to gain weight.

Then why do some people eat ultraprocessed foods frequently and remain slim, while others don't? Because those others eat too much, right?

Not many people eat upfs frequently and remain slim, unless they are restricting other foods, in which case their nutrition will be shit.

I ate this when I was anorexic and dying!

I ate lunch like this when dieting normally along with a decent breakfast and dinner.

Yes.

Does anyone remember the programme supersize vs superskinny? Many of the skinny people lived on piles of junk food, with not a vegetable in sight, it was quite shocking when they showed what they ate in a day/ week!

Though our bodies all react differently, due to various factors. I really don’t like it when people on here go on about ‘competitive undereaters’. They would call me one if I listed what I eat in a normal day (no breakfast, soup only for lunch, no snacks) and say I have an eating disorder (I don’t) but if I ate what many people would class as a normal amount then I put on weight, so I have no other choice if I want to stay in a a healthy weight range. I exercise daily too. And I wouldn’t class myself as slim either, I could certainly do with losing a few pounds. I used to be able to eat normally without thinking too much about what I was eating but that has changed in recent years and I think my metabolism or hormones are affecting how my body reacts.

I was meant to quote a post there, never mind!