To ask if you believe in past lives?

[Sayhellolikethis]

Name changed, as I’ve told MIL and DSis about this already…

Putting my little boy (just turned 4) to bed and he told me “I built 60 bridges during the war and I also built a bomb”. I asked him why he built a bomb and he said “I put 2 bombs on each of my bridges to protect them”. He also said “the factories were covered in camouflage”.

He then added “and a fighter jet plane falled to the ground”.

It was such a ramble of words and then he just wanted to snuggle down and go to sleep.

Has anyone else had a similar experience with their little ones? He won’t talk about it any further. Puzzled!!

There definitely are incidents verified by more than one person. Many of them. (I know I keep citing ‘Uncanny’, but it is a huge-scale investigation of people’s paranormal experiences, and there are several where people share experiences/visions).

But this still isn’t scientific evidence. So I don’t think that’s what people are demanding?

Genuinely don’t know what you mean by repricatable?

I’m struggling to understand what form this evidence would take

It's been tried. Every attempt to replicate 'paranormal phenomena' under neutral and controlled conditions has failed.

Why might that be?

But why would it be able to be replicated? Just, why? These experiences are often very unpredictable, fleeting and unexpected. Then they’re over 🤷‍♀️

But why would it be able to be replicated? Just, why?

We're told the spirits are 'communicating'.

Why would they sweep a random picture off the wall rather than prove their credentials beyond doubt?

No idea. As I mentioned upthread, if there were any sort of ‘other realm’ or supernatural phenomena, I’d be very surprised indeed if it adhered to any of our ideas about rules or any of our expectations. I’d expect it to be beyond our understanding.

I’d expect it to be beyond our understanding.

Spirits (much like god) moving in mysterious ways then?

Not sure what your point is…?

Not sure what your point is…?

Why expect 'spirits' to be beyond our understanding if they've nothing of value to say?

Nope. You’ve lost me!

genuinely don’t know what you mean by repricatable?

Don’t you? It must be possible to reliably replicate results. Ie it must be possible, in the same circumstances, reliably replicate any phenomenon witnessed and recorded.

‘Replicatable’ - oh, I see (though I think the word is ‘replicable’ 😉)

No, I don’t think that should necessarily be possible. This is why I keep asking what sort of ‘evidence’ people are expecting. So, for example, if someone has a fleeting vision of a figure or an auditory experience of a voice (just random examples), are you saying it should then be possible to summon those exact same phenomena again to test them in some way? Genuinely asking.

That's why I said "IF you believe that the soul exists yada yada yada". I'm not sure that I do either.

I'm merely poreincarnation makes more sense with natural laws compared to the very commonplace (and in my view, less frequently derided) belief in heaven.

Sent too soon.

Pointing out a view that reincarnation*

It definitely is replicable. I could not for the life of me )or any previous life 😉) make my tired brain think of the right word. But you knew what I meant so…

and yes, it should be possible to replicate. If it’s going to count as evidence of anything other than the hearsay kind.

So you’re saying that if someone tells of hearing/seeing something inexplicable, they then have to have the exact same experience again somehow? And then what?

yes, it should be possible to replicate. If it’s going to count as evidence of anything other than the hearsay kind.

Quite.

Claiming spirit activity as likely to be 'beyond our understanding' and examples beyond reproduction doesn't constitute much of an argument.

It has to be witnessed and documented and recorded in even a vaguely sensible fashion to be evidenced. Otherwise it’s just a story.

But the point of it might not be to construct an ‘argument’ to convince people who are set against anything like this?

No one has touched my other points about the parts of human experience that are not explained by science- our capacity for art and music, our appreciation of a sunset etc. I’m intrigued by the mindset that sees human experience as just ‘data’ and function.

I think these threads go this way because there are sceptics who want to slap down every mention of anything at all spiritual or inexplicable- and those who are open to these ideas understandably resent this. I don’t think it’s about trying to construct an ‘argument’ to convince you or anyone like you - that’s clearly not going to happen!

The first thought of those experiencing what seem to be paranormal activity may not actually be ‘ooh - how can I test this and present it as compelling evidence to @CathyorClaire on mumsnet! It’s in all likelihood much more personal and meaningful than that.

Like I said, there’s no convincing sceptics. But those of us who like to keep an open mind, listening to the experiences of others without automatically saying “you were asleep”, do find the sneering a little tiresome, I’ll admit.

In some ways, I think the sceptic position is an attempt to be the most ‘grown-up’, and to clothe it in concern for vulnerable people being exploited by charlatans. But there are charlatans in every area of life, of course, and most of us muddle along ok 🤷‍♀️

But those of us who like to keep an open mind, listening to the experiences of others

What do you make of the unsuccessful attempts to replicate paranormal phenomena in the interests of furthering understanding?

Likewise the many unclaimed monetary prizes for proving the existence of the supernatural beyond doubt?

What do I make of them? Not a lot. As per my previous posts. As I’ve suggested, if there were such a thing as spirits, do you imagine them a bit like performing seals?

What do you make of humans’ capacity for creativity and art? How can you prove you love anyone? Do you think we are alone in the universe? There are a lot of questions out there! Not sure why you think I or anyone else on here should have answers to some of the most complex ones.

Likewise the many unclaimed monetary prizes for proving the existence of the supernatural beyond doubt?

Now, I do have a theory here… If there is any supernatural realm, I’d say it’s absolutely imperative that humans don’t prove it ‘beyond doubt’. Can you imagine what that would do to life as we know it? Our very humanity is, to some extent, based on our mortality.

Sometimes people who don’t understand faith ask ‘why can’t god just prove beyond doubt that he’s there?’ Same situation.

Rupert Sheldrake has done fantastic work challenging the dogmatic approach underpinning most current scientific thinking and the inadequate evidence that has abounded when it comes to attempts to understand, not only the human mind, but the entire 'material' world. Even so-called scientific 'constants' may be anything but...worth having a look at his account of how the mainstream narrative has sought to misrepresent his views, with a quick interview about how the Richard Dawkins position is systematically privileged. Also, his banned TED Talk is interesting in its own right and also for the fact that it was banned -.makes it look like conventional science has something to hide! Perhaps it is time all you sceptics broke free from the institutionalised dogmas!

@Myfavouritepenguin Well thought-out posts!
Wish I was as good with words. :-)

Thank you! That means a lot, especially against the backdrop of the sceptic onslaught, whose purpose very much seems to be just to pour scorn on people and their ideas!

@Myfavouritepenguin I totally agree.
I'm obviously NOT as good with words so I give up at the onslaught. I don't mind people disagreeing, but the sceptics who belittle other posters are cruel & closed minded.