Page 11 | To ask if you believe in past lives?

Sayhellolikethis · 2023-05-28T14:06:21+00:00

Name changed, as I’ve told MIL and DSis about this already… Putting my little boy (just turned 4) to bed and he told me “I built 60 bridges during the war and I also built a bomb”. I asked him why he built a bomb and he said “I put 2 bombs on each of my bridges to protect them”. He also said “the factories were covered in camouflage”. He then added “and a fighter jet plane falled to the ground”. It was such a ramble of words and then he just wanted to snuggle down and go to sleep. Has anyone else had a similar experience with their little ones? He won’t talk about it any further. Puzzled!!

CurlewKate · 30/05/2023 23:08

@OMG12 "That fact is you will never be able to prove these things don’t exist."

Of course I can't. I can't prove that the sum will rise tomorrow, or that water will always be wet. But the overwhelming evidence suggests that it will, and it is. But the simplest explanation is always the one to go for!

CurlewKate · 30/05/2023 23:18

@OMG12 I also can't prove that unicorns don't exist-but sadly, they don't.

Tourmalines · 31/05/2023 00:41

CurlewKate · 30/05/2023 23:18

@OMG12 I also can't prove that unicorns don't exist-but sadly, they don't.

this

Zippedydoo123 · 31/05/2023 05:22

I have always believed in past lives karma and reincarnation. It is the only thing that explains why e.g. a child is born disabled or terrible things happen to people.

I do not believe in attaching blame or guilt to individuals though.

Tourmalines · 31/05/2023 05:49

Zippedydoo123 · 31/05/2023 05:22

I have always believed in past lives karma and reincarnation. It is the only thing that explains why e.g. a child is born disabled or terrible things happen to people.

I do not believe in attaching blame or guilt to individuals though.

🙄

OMG12 · 31/05/2023 07:42

CurlewKate · 30/05/2023 23:08

@OMG12 "That fact is you will never be able to prove these things don’t exist."

Of course I can't. I can't prove that the sum will rise tomorrow, or that water will always be wet. But the overwhelming evidence suggests that it will, and it is. But the simplest explanation is always the one to go for!

But the simplest explanation is that the child is telling the truth. Your alternative is the simplest explanation of the answer you want to be true.

OMG12 · 31/05/2023 07:47

CurlewKate · 30/05/2023 23:18

@OMG12 I also can't prove that unicorns don't exist-but sadly, they don't.

But as you said, you can’t categorically prove it, so you can’t say they don’t exist. You can state, you don’t believe they exist (neither do I, at least in this plane of existence). But if lots of people had seen them, if I had seen one, I would believe.

You have a world view and you try and get everything to fit into that world view to make it make sense. But at the end of the day to make your world work you have to exclude possibilities and other peoples valid experiences.

OMG12 · 31/05/2023 07:48

Tourmalines · 31/05/2023 00:41

this

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Thank you for your erudite and enlightening addition to the debate

Tourmalines · 31/05/2023 07:56

OMG12 · 31/05/2023 07:48

Thank you for your erudite and enlightening addition to the debate

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your welcome .

Kanaloa · 31/05/2023 08:02

Outofthepark · 30/05/2023 20:48

@Kanaloa you sound angry and desperate to win an argument that doesn't exist. None of us know the truth, and we never will, so there's no point in trying to win an argument!

As an aside it took me seconds to Google this - Bailey bridges, very common in WWII. It would have been easy to construct 60 or many more in a very short amount of time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bailey_bridge

Doesn't matter though, none of us will never know so why the anger, pride and need to prove a point or win an imaginary argument? You'll just burst a blood vessel pointlessly. Why not just be happy to accept any outcome is possible? Because it is. Us humans will simply never know.

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I’m not angry. I’m just pointing out that you’re wrong. The war from this child’s past life/imagination involved fighter planes and factories. It therefore could not have been ‘any war since humans started fighting wars’ as you said. Fighter planes have only existed in recent time. So it must have been a modern war.

Why are you painting me as angry/desperate for pointing out a basic fact?

Kanaloa · 31/05/2023 08:04

Zippedydoo123 · 31/05/2023 05:22

I have always believed in past lives karma and reincarnation. It is the only thing that explains why e.g. a child is born disabled or terrible things happen to people.

I do not believe in attaching blame or guilt to individuals though.

It’s nonsense like this that makes all the woo stuff really quite harmful. People are not disabled because they had bad karma in a past life. There are many genetic factors to some disabilities and others can be caused by environmental factors. Please don’t peddle this hurtful nonsense.

OMG12 · 31/05/2023 08:22

Tourmalines · 31/05/2023 07:56

your welcome .

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Thanks, your response has given me the first giggle of the day

CurlewKate · 31/05/2023 08:29

@OMG12 "But the simplest explanation is that the child is telling the truth. Your alternative is the simplest explanation of the answer you want to be true."

Well, no. One of them fits with objective observable currently known facts. The other doesn't. All children love imaginative play and like to tell stories. It's important for their development. There has never been a case of reincarnation or past life regression that has stood up to objective scrutiny. So, imagination, storytelling is the simplest explanation. As I said, that might change tomorrow.

Fairislefandango · 31/05/2023 08:34

But the simplest explanation is that the child is telling the truth. Your alternative is the simplest explanation of the answer you want to be true.

Simple isn't the same as true. 'God made it' is simpler than an explanation of the Big Bang. 'The stork brought us your baby brother' is simpler than explaining human reproduction.

Outofthepark · 31/05/2023 08:35

Kanaloa · 31/05/2023 08:02

I’m not angry. I’m just pointing out that you’re wrong. The war from this child’s past life/imagination involved fighter planes and factories. It therefore could not have been ‘any war since humans started fighting wars’ as you said. Fighter planes have only existed in recent time. So it must have been a modern war.

Why are you painting me as angry/desperate for pointing out a basic fact?

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You're still fighting to win an imaginary argument by saying 'you're wrong'! Which I'm not by the way. But whatever. I on the other hand am very relaxed in knowing that:

you don't know the truth
I don't know the truth
noone on Mumsnet knows the truth
and noone of us ever will.

So why not just be happy in admitting you don't know? I can happily admit that, and I enjoy that people think differently, and have no need to arrogantly discount their views just because they are different to mine 😄

Fairislefandango · 31/05/2023 08:36

... and no doubt if reincarnation were actually true, it would require some pretty complex metaphysical explanation as to how the process actually works.

CurlewKate · 31/05/2023 08:36

@OMG12 "But if lots of people had seen them, if I had seen one, I would believe."

If I saw a unicorn, or even if a lot of people said they'd seen a unicorn, there are a hell of a lot of stages I'd go through before I got to "Yep-unicorns exist." !

malificent7 · 31/05/2023 08:37

When I went into labour with my 1st and only child I had a very strong sense of de ja vu...as though I had given birth before...weird. so who knows?!

BitOutOfPractice · 31/05/2023 08:45

I’m afraid I need more “evidence” than “this once happened to me” or someone saying “you shouldn’t dismiss it just because tut don’t understand it.” I don’t dismiss many things I can’t understand, Latin, nuclear physics, electricity, for example. I do dismiss things for which, after centuries of people claiming it’s true, there’s no evidence for whatsoever, like angels, the afterlife, the healing power of crystals.

I’m happy to join the jackasses, no I don’t believe.

PlinkPlonkFizz · 31/05/2023 08:51

TinySaltLick · 29/05/2023 20:06

Genuinely astonished at the number of people responding saying they believe this stuff - when literally no evidence, study or proof has ever even offered a whiff of being true under even the slightest scrutiny

If course it isn't true, it is just optimism bias or coincidences

There's a fascinating case that presents proof in one person's case. A woman who had no connection to Ireland with an extensive memory of her previous (very ordinary) life in a village in Dublin. https://psi-encyclopedia.spr.ac.uk/articles/jenny-cockell-mary-sutton-reincarnation-case

Jenny Cockell (Mary Sutton reincarnation case) | Psi Encyclopedia

Reincarnation case in which an English woman, Jenny Cockell, recalled memories of the life of a working class Irish woman named Mary Sutton in the early twentieth century.

https://psi-encyclopedia.spr.ac.uk/articles/jenny-cockell-mary-sutton-reincarnation-case

Fairislefandango · 31/05/2023 08:58

I don’t dismiss many things I can’t understand, Latin, nuclear physics, electricity, for example. I do dismiss things for which, after centuries of people claiming it’s true, there’s no evidence for whatsoever, like angels, the afterlife, the healing power of crystals.

^This. Saying that 'we don't know one way or the other' as though those positions are somehow equal in terms of rationality and likelihood is just absurd.

If people have been desperately trying to demonstrate the existence of something for hundreds of years or more and if, in spite of their best efforts, not one of them has found a single shred of evidence of any kind, and if (unlike scientific theories which might have taken a lot of time and effort to prove), this phenomenon is not even an explanation of any kind of observable phenomenon, what is the justification for believing it exists (other than a really, really strong desire for there to be something mystical in life that makes you feel special)?

Fairislefandango · 31/05/2023 09:02

There's a fascinating case that presents proof in one person's case.

You only have to read the critical bits at the end of the article to see that this doesn't present 'proof'.

PlinkPlonkFizz · 31/05/2023 09:06

Fairislefandango · 31/05/2023 09:02

There's a fascinating case that presents proof in one person's case.

You only have to read the critical bits at the end of the article to see that this doesn't present 'proof'.

I read the criticisms and some are valid but recollections may vary, especially over time and I feel there is so much that was verified that it is a compelling case for past lives.

PlinkPlonkFizz · 31/05/2023 09:08

Zippedydoo123 · 31/05/2023 05:22

I have always believed in past lives karma and reincarnation. It is the only thing that explains why e.g. a child is born disabled or terrible things happen to people.

I do not believe in attaching blame or guilt to individuals though.

Reflect for a moment on how appallingly ignorant and judgmental you are. So offensive to assume a disability is as a result of an action in a past life. So only good things happen to good people?

BitOutOfPractice · 31/05/2023 09:12

@PlinkPlonkFizz ”one person talks about life in 19th century Ireland in such general terms that any idiot could spout it” is not evidence. You know what evidence is don’t you? That’s like me walking into a police station and saying “that man there is a murderer, because he looks a bit creepy and I don’t like his trousers” and him getting sent to jail on my “evidence”.