Do you find this offensive?

[Meeting]

The Theatre Royal Stratford East is putting on a show and have blocked out 2 dates as "Blackout" nights where they encourage (but I don't think plan to enforce) that only black people may attend these performances.

I saw them discussing it on Piers Morgan and neither of the guests advocating for it were able to convince me that this type of segregation was at all beneficial.

Does anybody think this is a good idea? Personally I think segregation based on skin colour has no place in society, no matter who benefits from it. But I'm interested to hear from others who might away it differently?

@HeartBrokenWife Realize lots of questions being asked, but any chance you'd answer this from earlier:

Would you object to Maori people asking other races to not book one night to discuss issues around their race in a play, or is it because 'Black people' are grouping together identifying by communal skin coloration rather than a specific race?
I'm picking up on something you said (see earlier post) and genuinely trying to understand your perspective.

Point 3 is an example of and perpetuating point 2.

Break the cycle, don't add to it!

I'm not sure if you are wilfully misunderstanding what I'm saying so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and explain, again, that I am against excluding people from a public performance based on the colour of their skin.

Incidentally, what do you think about men being able to join the WI and boys being able to join Guides? I'm not sure how far apart our opinions actually are?

So not only are you refusing to listen to the black women on this thread, you're insinuating that they could be lying about their race too. You clearly only want to listen to narratives that fit your own.

I just hate, with a passion, the thought of a colour bar for public performances. I have no objection to anyone with various religious beliefs gathering in a church, mosque or temple, or lesbians wanting to socialise in bars or clubs with other lesbians, or pupils attending faith schools and so on, but I genuinely don't want to see the re-introduction of the colour bar where people are refused entry to public events due to skin colour. It truly horrifies me.

that I am against excluding people from a public performance based on the colour of their skin
Except that's not what's happening is it - why are you finding it so hard to grasp?!

Sorry, I can't engage with rank stupidity. Please try to read my posts instead of launching these wearying ad hominem attacks. It doesn't help either you or me does it?

I've read your posts. You keep insisting that you are anti racist, but you don't want to listen to what some of the black people are telling you.

and genuinely trying to understand your perspective
Their pretend cry complete with a sad face emoji about safe spaces and centring the discussion on themselves upthread I think says it all about their perspective.
Don't think it's good faith discussion at all

But it is happening so same question to you? I will repeat for possibly the thousandth time (hyperbole I know, but it's getting tiring now having to deal with bad faith arguments) that I am against the re-introduction of the colour bar. Public performances should be for the general public and no-one should be excluded based on skin colour. There are reasons for excluding certain people from certain things, but not for the colour of their skin. It didn't work the last time we tried it, so why will it work now?

Yep, exactly.
Instead of listening got their fingers in their ears.

@HeartBrokenWife I understand what you're saying and if that's what was happening I'd agree with you, but you're stepping past the question and not answering it: Is your objection because it's being requested by groups of races defining themselves by color, rather than a specific race, ie Maori?

Not true. I am listening to some black people, just not the ones that you want me to listen to! I have friends who are completely against the re-introduction of racial discrimination and I have seen many podcasts by black men and women who feel exactly the same. I will re-iterate, black people are not a homogenous mass and neither are white people. It is offensive to act as though they are, especially if you are not black yourself. You may be black for all I know, and so may I as far as you know, but either way, there is no one black or white voice that speaks for everyone. If there were, we wouldn't be having this debate would we?

So which bit of my argument have you listened to? Self-awareness deficit methinks ...

70% think this is offensive?!
Pull yourselves together you absolute wallies

I'm white, and I'm aware that black people are not one homogenous voice. But you are not listening to both sides. You're listening to the side that agrees with your narrative and completely refusing to discuss any of the points made by black people that go against your arguments. This faux pretence of being so anti racist is negated by your own ignorance.

Its not good faith at all and there is an awful lot of DARVO in their answers too

Its very depressing but unsuprising on MN where racist posts are left up far too often so it encourages people to think it's okay to drown out black voices about black issues

Oh, sorry, I see what you mean now. I was a bit slow to catch on 😮No, it's the skin colour aspect that is worrying me rather than a specific race thing. I am completely opposed to racism and I don't want racial segregation to rear it's head again during my lifetime.

I'm absolutely not against groups with religious affiliations, a passion for cycling, or those needing privacy for safety reasons etc, meeting together and excluding others without those characteristics/wants/needs, but this is a public performance, funded as far as I'm aware by Arts Council England and skin colour should not be factored in to decide who can or cannot attend.

So where have you listened either to my voice of the voices of black people who disagree with you? I must have missed that post ...

I'm white, and I'm aware that black people are not one homogenous voice. But you are not listening to both sides
Same, and exactly.
It's all like "why won't black people educate me?"
Then in the next breath admitting they do listen, just "not to the ones you want me to listen to"
if you're not listening to others, what's the point - just entrench yourself further then your views then instead of learning /enriching.

@HeartBrokenWife You keep waffling on about "the colour bar" now, but you really don't seem to understand what that was either. And by comparing "the colour bar" with this one-night theatre performance - which white people ARE NOT barred from - is honestly just beyond bonkers. Please, please do some research and stop throwing about phrases willy-nilly that you have no understanding of.

I have listened to them, and if that's how they feel, that's fine. But as a white person, I'm not going to tell black people how they should and should not feel about this issue, and I'm not going to ignore the black people that do welcome this. You are.

Exactly.

That's simply untrue and you know it. Why can I not wish for a safe space? Who is allowed to access those? What characteristics must a poster possess to be allowed to use emojis? Are you trying to deny who I am? To deny my humanity? You should believe who I say I am because I am writing from my own lived experience and no-one can deny my truth ...

Again, please show me where you have listened to me and to my point of view? You complain that I've not listened to yours, so why have you not listened to mine? It has to cut both ways doesn't it?