Do you find this offensive?

[Meeting]

The Theatre Royal Stratford East is putting on a show and have blocked out 2 dates as "Blackout" nights where they encourage (but I don't think plan to enforce) that only black people may attend these performances.

I saw them discussing it on Piers Morgan and neither of the guests advocating for it were able to convince me that this type of segregation was at all beneficial.

Does anybody think this is a good idea? Personally I think segregation based on skin colour has no place in society, no matter who benefits from it. But I'm interested to hear from others who might away it differently?

@EmptyBedBlues Given what I've read and heard about the content, contentiousness, and racial slurs in the play at the Almeida, it seems pretty reasonable.

I wouldn't have had an issue if they'd asked heterosexual people to consider not booking on a specific night involving discussions about power in/balance in Gay relationships either.

I wonder if there would be so much objection if it was Gay people asking heterosexual people to consider not booking for two nights out of a run?

I'm white, I don't find this offensive.

I also think it's hyperbole to call it segregation. I haven't clicked through to the show website but from other remarks on the thread it sounds like it touches on difficult or traumatic topics - I assume related to racism.

I think it's a thoughtful gesture to offer a handful of showings where black people have the choice to process that together without white people.

The OP says she's also from a minority ethnic group and wouldn't want to go to an equivalent session and that's fine. Nobody is forcing them to. But I don't see why it's a problem to offer the option for those who would prefer it.

Sounds like there are plenty of sessions open to people who aren't black too.

Absolutely!
Its almost as if victimhood suits and its intentinaly kept going.
Its not acceptable and wouldnt be tollerated if it was the other way around.

@Thatladdo

Its almost as if victimhood suits and its intentinaly kept going.

Can you explain what you mean by 'it's almost as if victimhood suits'? In what sense do you believe that and how does that belief, in your opinion, manifest itself?

Has anyone changed their mind after reading the thread?

Tbh I'm struggling to see what emotional or problematic issues could need to be discussed in a group of white people that would call for the need of a white night?

Sections of people who are white absolutely, but not by their whiteness.

So disabled people, but that wouldn't need to be limited to white disabled people, or LGB people, or women. But again not just white women for example (although I would defend the need for black women to have their own space because they have more issues to contend with than white women)

So the whole 'it wouldn't be tolerated if it was the other way around' sounds a bit like hyperbole that racist people come out with to justify racism. See also: "people say things about Christianity that wouldn't be tolerated about Muslims"- in a country whether the media is tolerated saying Islamaphobic things, and Muslims are assaulted because people assume they are terrorists and Chrisitians are complaining someone is referring to God as a sky fairy. (I say this as a Christian).

If you think there are no places where black people aren't allowed any more walk into an IT department in most large companies in the UK and ask yourself where the black people especially women are. White people yes, Asian people yes, but black people will be massively underrepresented due to stereotypes and conscious and unconscious bias.

@CandyLips You should go if you want to and tell us all about it on Mumsnet.

Where did you read that from honestly who taught you to think that was true?

It's not offensive or negative. It's just inevitable.

I am white. I see things through the perspective of 50 years of living my life without being made aware of my race in a majority white country.

On those occasions when I am in a space where the majority is not white, I am made aware. I don't think that the guests at a Sikh wedding or the audience at a black music event are thinking badly of me, but I see that they are checking me out more than they would be if I shared their heritage. I can try and imagine how that might feel if it happened on a daily basis, but I can't experience it.

"White gaze" doesn't have to be malicious or negative. It doesn't mean white people are bad or racist or should be ashamed or guilty, or that they are are a homogeneous lump who all feel the same way. We can't help our white gaze, just as men can't help the male gaze. But thoughtful white people and thoughtful men understand that sometimes other people may wish not to have to be gazed on by them.

So according to many posters on this thread it’s simultaneously NOT a minority group’s responsibility to ‘educate’ majority groups AND white people are advised to listen more and speak less? How confusing is that? Can one of the race segregators please explain how we can learn without asking? Particularly since we’re told we don’t care about the feelings of minority groups unless we ‘educate’ ourselves, and the education can only come from the minority group itself! Makes zero sense folks 🤷🏻‍♀️

Really? You can't think of any way to find the answers to your questions other than to ask random people who just happen to be black?

What random black people are you talking about? Where are they? What have I asked them? You’ve obviously got all the ‘answers’ from somewhere, so why don’t you share your boundless knowledge with the 72% of posters who agree with the OP’s premise? 🤷🏻‍♀️

@BadNomad Not just random people who just happen to be black mind you, the poster specifically asked for one of the "race segregators" to speak up... Rather interesting I thought.

There have been load and load of black people who have gone out of their way over the years to write books, articles, blog posts, social media videos etc about these things.

If you can spend 2 mins googling for yourself, why do you expect any random black person to educate you?

If I want to learn something about gynaecology I pick up a book or google it. I dont rock up at a hospital and demand the nearest gynae doctor educates me because Ive suddently decided right now is the time ive chosen to learn and they should drop everything and accomodate me.

The black people who have chosen to take their time to help other people understand are to be commended for what is frequently a thankless task. But every black person isnt the spokesperson for all black people and every black person doesnt need to carry that burden.

And race segregators, really? You dont come across as someone with a genuine want to learn at all.

As a mixed race (asian) woman I am rather tired of people who demand I educate them but who actually just want to pick offensive holes in everything in an attempt to justify their racism or mysoginy. Terms like race segregator being used when black people are centred rather than white people certainly gives off vibes of someone who doesnt really want to learn at all.

Books, documentaries, podcasts, interviews, experiences told by people who wish to share them etc. I've never once had to ask "minorities" to teach me about minorities.

Sometimes men have conversations with women (on here, in real life) where they express shock at, for example, rape statistics, and ask why aren't women speaking up and telling people about this. How come its the first he's hearing about this. And I think to myself 'were they in a coma during me too, or did they just not pay attention because they don't actually care about other human beings who arent them'

And when white people in real life, or on here, demand that minorities educate them about racism and living as a minority I think to myself 'were they in a coma during the events surrounding George Floyds death, or did they just no pay attention bevlcause they dont actually care about other human beings who aren't them'

For me, my social media feeds and the general media were flooded with suggestions of books to read, and acitivists to listen to and podcasts etc. If you think black people haven't been educating you on the issues they face, its because you havent been listening. Not because they havent been talking.

I’m fairly local, the area is certainly a white minority. Yet when I go to the theatre I tend to see white majority audiences. I’d assume the audiences often don’t reflect the make-up of the area. The way I see it events like this re-dress the balance a bit. Maybe give a space for anyone who feels they don’t fit in at the theatre.
Ultimately I’m not that bothered. It’s not every night is it, or banning white people from the theatre. I can go pretty much anytime I want still. It’s hardly the introduction of reverse apartheid. By giving some people something they want I’m not losing anything at all. Let be.

@HeartBrokenWife
So according to many posters on this thread it’s simultaneously NOT a minority group’s responsibility to ‘educate’ majority groups AND white people are advised to listen more and speak less?
Yes, not sure what exactly it is that you're finding so confusing?
Why should people who are black owe you an education?
I've been on here long enough to know 90% of the time questions are never genuine.
You may occasionally sometimes get someone genuinely curious and go away more knowledgeable, but most of the time it's someone who takes offence, makes it all about themselves, or minimises or tries to gaslight "that didnt happen." Etc.
Why do you feel they owe us that level of emotional work, mental load?
If you genuinely wanted to learn, you wouldn't be saying stuff like "race segregators" and pretending to be all confused.
You'd you know, go find out for yourself, read up, educate yourself, and listen to what people are saying (like actually reading the thread and having a think about posts)

@Master Beth Spot on. I can’t help subjecting you to a Rom gaze and the assumptions I have unless or until you display different views from normal, and you can’t help your gaze and assumptions unless until either. All it means is you won’t really want me at a meeting about using school catchment loop holes and I wont want you at a meeting about Rom DV, even though we may both be edge affected by the end results of both issues.

Sounds like White mischief has sought to ensure Black people who booked for that night don’t get the opportunity to see and discuss it free from white supervision and interference anyway.

I have this 2nd hand, but apparently some white Tv presenter is bragging that he’s brought up remaining front row tickets for white people to go to “ensure diversity” and that “all racism even if it’s positive discrimination is stamped out”
Apparently also said “it’s like Mrs Parkes on the back of the bus isn’t it?” And that he’s “making a stand as she did.” Then did apparently U turn and say he’s not trying to suggest it’s similar. As said, I have this 2nd hand.

Needless to say he was able to buy up the tickets no problem even when doing it as an outward spoiler, because all the way along it's been a a polite request, and nothing else.

I'll be sure to watch all the documentaries on the horror of being minority white people in a predominantly black audience at a play on 2 days. I hope there is a helpline.

Think about what you're not grasping here. I am emphatically NOT a racial segregator, therefore why do you think I'm going to read/watch/listen to anyone (regardless of the colour of their skin) who tells the world that racial segregation is a good thing? Clearly I am not. If anyone wants to change my mind then they will have to engage with me of their own accord and provide convincing evidence to prove that racial segregation will benefit society, because I'm not seeking to change my own mind. I've listened diligently to commentators from both sides over the past few years and come to my own conclusions.

I listen to a lot of black political commentators and they don't buy into the racial segregation narrative, so maybe, just maybe, it's you who should be educating yourself (and that goes for all the racial segregation fans on this thread, not singling you out) and gaining exposure to diverse viewpoints? Diversity is invariably a good thing, no? Educating oneself, ditto 😉

What are you talking about? You said "So according to many posters on this thread it’s simultaneously NOT a minority group’s responsibility to ‘educate’ majority groups AND white people are advised to listen more and speak less?" It is not a minority group's responsibility to educate you. Go do that yourself.

As I’ve just explained, I have taken time to educate myself. You, apparently, may not have …

Where is the diversity in the audience on the other days?

And while we're at it, do you think Travellers shouldn't be allowed to segregate themselves from the rest of the "community"? Should they be forced to live in houses like everyone else? Should they not be allowed to stay within their own culture and ethnic groups? Or is it just black people who you don't think should be allowed to have 2 days when they're not the minority in the crowd?

@HeartBrokenWife the reason why half the UK voted leave was because they didn't want immigration and they wanted their borders back. I don't know whether you voted or not. It does sound hypocritical to judge what they are asking for they are not promoting a divide they are asking for 1 night. It does say on their website they will not turn you away if you did turn up.

provide convincing evidence to prove that racial segregation will benefit society

Brexit hasn't worked has it we should go back to Europe and beg for forgiveness to end our pain.