Do you find this offensive?

[Meeting]

The Theatre Royal Stratford East is putting on a show and have blocked out 2 dates as "Blackout" nights where they encourage (but I don't think plan to enforce) that only black people may attend these performances.

I saw them discussing it on Piers Morgan and neither of the guests advocating for it were able to convince me that this type of segregation was at all beneficial.

Does anybody think this is a good idea? Personally I think segregation based on skin colour has no place in society, no matter who benefits from it. But I'm interested to hear from others who might away it differently?

Why would someone asking a question be making it all about them as opposed to eg discovering things they didn't know about about someone else?

Surely if it is not wanted and even labelled then it is a negative thing?

Can you explain why a white person in an audience would make you feel less comfortable? What is it? You think they are looking at you and judging your reactions to the play? ( As some previous poster alluded to) I really dont understand this.

A friend of a few years recently told me that her parents were "gypsies". It would never have occurred to me tbh, even though her colouring fits.

How do people even know your heritage in order to refuse you entry?
Genuine question

This!

You were, just now, offended because of a phrase you've never heard before, and went off on a rant without understanding its meaning.

So, instead of discussing the topic at hand, to placate you, we must try to explain what we mean when we said it.

20 pages in and you still haven't learned possible reasons this night exists, or what the phrase means? Maybe you should ask less questions and listen more.

I am not the one to explain it further, sorry.

I most certainly didn't go off on a rant. I did make several posts replying to different posters with genuine enquiries. I am asking to be placated ? What an odd thing to say. It seems you are the one with your knickers in a twist about this. So much for genuine questions.

That theatre tends not to have a white audience in any case, largely due to its location. So to insist white peoples are banned is unnecessary
Given we are meant to learn from history to prevent its more harmful aspects recurring, not to replicate them, then yes, I do find this unnecessary and I am appalled that a race seeks to ban another.
What would happen if white people insisted on white only spaces, in 2023.

Your words:

One thing I have learned from this thread is that as a white person I am even more offensive as I possess " a white gaze". I had never even heard of this phrase until here. Do all white people have this or just some? It seems to me that this phrase lumps all white people into one blob of people who think all the same and have the same experience. What a load of nonsense. Is there a reverse? "A black gaze" - same conditions apply.

Yeah this is a rant 🙄. Bye.

I don't even know why I'm so invested in this, I have no intentions of viewing the play. I only entered the thread because I had a fair amount of empathy for any black person who would want to attend a night like this, based upon my own experience. Now I'm totally sold on the idea! Not just for black people, I see the need for other groups to feel empowered enough to create safe spaces to discuss their shit without offending people they weren't even offending. Bloody hell. I see it now.

I really wish mumsnet was around when I was much younger! The energy I could have saved myself by refusing to explain things like this to white people who are intent on misconstruing and misunderstanding my words could have generated enough energy to power America and China for a century.

My goodness. The “All Lives Matter” brigade are clearly out in force on this thread. 🤦‍♀️

and this isn't a rant? Rules for one and different rules for others. I won't be returning to this as there is nothing to be gained in genuine discussion which is turned into accusations. Good luck with how that works out for you.

It’s not the responsibility of minority groups to educate majority groups.

That is precisely the sort of centring of white people’s issues that this type of event is designed to address.

Except white people aren’t banned, as has been pointed out multiple times.

Another example of someone just making things up to suit their agenda - and therefore making the point very strongly that there is merit in events like these.

@CandyLips

People with your attitude towards race are the reason events like the one being discussed are created.

You are part of the problem. Yet you claim there is no problem and even when people take time to explain their personal experiences and issues (as multiple posters have on this thread) you continue to demand more answers as you don't deem those provided to be sufficient.

You are either extremely ignorant or wilfully disingenuous when it comes to race.

@Refrosty I entered it for the same simple reasons, and really glad you got invested! The problem's universal for many groups and others often feel threatened at attempts to talk unscrutinized.

@Candy Lips you need to start at the beginning tbh. The pic might help you understand your problem with as you see it: "Rules for one and different rules for others" You're the person in the blue shirt.
Different groups with similar problems want to try and figure out ways to get the fence dealt with without others turning into a debate about if the fence is really a problem because they can't see a problem with it.

Makes perfect sense to me especially if there is a Q&A

We had an international womens day event at work in a majority male workplace, everyone was included. The idea was to address some of the barriers facing women entering the male dominated industry. We never got as far as coming up with ideas to address the barriers because instead every time an issue came up we had to spend forever explaining to the men why it was an issue even though it was subjects raised and discussed before. And these were men genuinely interested in helping and being supportive. But the entire conversation was dominated by them and the women who were there, instead of discussing what they wanted to discuss, were instead expected to use their time and effort energy educating the men.

The overwhelming feedback afterwards was that whilst the mixed sessions were good having at least one women's only session would have been beneficial.

So I can absolutely understand if there is a q and a why it would be more comfortable and less frustrating as a black person to just go on a night dedicated to black people where they aren't expected to be there solely to educate other people.

I think given some of the responses on this thread it's fairly obvious how quickly a conversation about issues facing black people can end up centering white people even if it's only a few white people doing the demanding.

@Isittimeformynapyet
Meeting told you about this, and you’re responding to her, and she and I heavily disagree politically, so I hope she’ll be ok with me shoving my oar in to say: think about how exhausting it is telling people this is what happens, and getting 'I can’t tell what you are, so how do others of my kind, in order for this to be happening to you?'
Do you think you might sound like you’re denying this is happening to her? Genuine question to you.

IMO it’s sometimes clothing, skin tone can play a part, but generally, because they are actively looking out for you. They may have had an issue at some time with a group, often not actually your heritage, or they heard someone else has, and now they’re looking. There may be a local site or planning proposals for one, and no negative interaction, but they want to make a point. They may have taken out a planning application to build flats where you live and are angry you/yours won’t sell so they can’t make money.
Local Facebook may be full of claims of stuff ranging from 'saw Gypsy's in a van, to found a pavement chalk mark/ leaflet half out of my letterbox, watch out, Gypsies about!

Done to other races they’ve had individual poor interactions with, we call it racism, done to 'Gypsies' we call it understandable.

TBF I can spot most Romanitchel, Romanichal, Roma, Dom, and other forms of Rom a mile away, regardless of if they’re wearing variants of traditional dress or not. I can also tell Irish Travelers at a glance.

With schools, HE, council, HMRC etc things follow us on paperwork. We aren’t let put our children to school under White/Brown British or Other. They reassign when we do. If a child’s Posh rat (mixed race) the 50% of their parentage that might count for them, is discounted.

When Anne Frank had a truck full of young girls standing stripped naked pass her, she knew they were 'Gypsy girls' being taken away. How do you think?

Rom police officers quite often get ‘you can’t arrest me, you’re a fucking Gypsy!’ How do your criminals tell, because it gets read out in court enough, as a defense for resisting arrest.

You never know who is secretly a racist. I'm white and am mainly surrounded by white people as I live in quite a white area. The amount of people who I've heard say casually racist things is astounding.

The white people in this thread saying they're offended by black people not always feeling comfortable around white people - you are doing the "not all men" thing as the men do when women say they don't always feel comfortable around men.

But when women are talking about issues that mainly affect women, such as sexual assault, being scared to walk places alone, etc. And men pipe up with "well it's not ALL men" and totally dismiss our concerns. It's annoying, no? Same principle applies here.

These images belong in US history, not future Britain. Segregation is abhorrent in all its forms, no matter what the justification is.

So do you also want to get rid of Guides, the WI, Merched Y Wawr, ladies day at the races, men's sheds, andys man club etc

Or is it just when a theatre invites an under represented audience to come to a play that's about an issue that impacts them in a different way to other parts of the traditional audience, on two nights out of the whole run without even stopping other people from other ethniticies from coming that you have a problem?

I’m assuming you are being deliberately obtuse, because surely it’s not difficult to grasp the difference between the Jim Crow laws which saw African-Americans segregated, lynched, deprived of education and civil rights as part of a conscious attempt to disenfranchise them, and an attempt to attract more Black audiences to theatre by arranging a single night in a play’s run when a non-white audience is encouraged to attend a play about the history of slavery, written by a Black playwright?

I don’t know whether anyones already pointed out that this isn’t a new thing? Common in the US for a while, I know the Almeida has done it before, and I assume other theatres too.

Yeah, legally enforced racial segregation isn't what's happening here, in any "form". Back to the history books for you!