Do you find this offensive?

[Meeting]

The Theatre Royal Stratford East is putting on a show and have blocked out 2 dates as "Blackout" nights where they encourage (but I don't think plan to enforce) that only black people may attend these performances.

I saw them discussing it on Piers Morgan and neither of the guests advocating for it were able to convince me that this type of segregation was at all beneficial.

Does anybody think this is a good idea? Personally I think segregation based on skin colour has no place in society, no matter who benefits from it. But I'm interested to hear from others who might away it differently?

Well I’m glad to hear I’m not the only black person with this opinion.
A PP assumed I was white because of my thoughts on the subject. Which I find rather sad.

I don’t know… I initially thought I found it offensive but then a pp asked about womens only events. I can see the similarities and that made me rethink somewhat. What’s the rest of the context?? I’m assuming it’s to offer a chance for theatre for those who might not usually attend. Perhaps they could reach that objective of making it accessible by offering reduced or free tickets or targeting youth groups or certain community groups and giving them free tickets. I agree with the op that any kind of racial segregation seems very very wrong in 2023.

Not the same at all! Men were not discouraged form attending ladies day- it's just that more women were encouraged and events run in a way that might interest women more. Men and women are inherently different and on the whole different things appeal.

Labelling it as 'Blackout day' suggests that it's for black people exclusively- there's nothing at a theatre that is specific to black people, there's no need for them to have a special show to be able to attend, there's nothing inherently different about black and white people other than their looks.

I do think segregation such as this is absurd. If there was a white only showing it would be racist. Whilst I can accept that a black only showing isn’t racist as whites aren’t a minority, it certainly carries hostile connotations, whether intentional or not

Is it only racist if the whites are a minority then?

What if a theatre in Jamaica did a whiteout night, where black people were discouraged from attending, so that the white people didn't have to "suffer the black gaze". Would that be okay? I've been to Jamaica many times, and let me tell you, I don't that that idea would fly. And rightly so.

My son is white and my DIL is black. What if they were only in the area on blackout night?

The whole thing is a backward step. I'm so fed up of people focussing on the colour of people's skin. When will we ever move on, when this stuff keeps happening?

But apartheid was, and is, inherently wrong.
It is a massively retrograde step in these supposedly enlightened and tolerant times to advocate for racial segregation.

I don’t find it offensive - it’s a marketing tactic targeting a group that don’t go to the theatre nearly as much as the average British person. As others have said, it seems comparable to attempts to get women interested in some sports or professions by having “ladies nights” (or whatever better term gets used nowadays). It can be very effective.

I could see how Black people might find the name offensive. But I’m not going to jump in and be offended for them. If some do, they should raise that and be listened to.

As a white woman I see no issue with it.

Like pp have said, it's no different to a ladies night etc.

No one is forcing anyone into careers. It's actually forcing those careers to accept everyone by being more open and welcoming. So people who do have an interest in those careers aren't put off by them being male/white/protestant dominant. Why do you think there are so few POC in teaching for example? Do you think it's because they have no interest in teaching or because they won't make good teachers? Or could it be because it's a career they've not seen many POC do and so it's not even on their radar when they're thinking about the future?

Now imagine if it was normal to see black faces standing at the front of the classroom, don't you think that might make more children consider teaching for their future?

All these heavily biased roles will remain heavily biased until it becomes normal to see diversity. But diversity does not just happen. Sometimes it has to be forced in the present so it can become normal in the future.

It's why we have so many Acts against discrimination. Because if you left it to people to be "fair and equal", well, you wouldn't be an architect and black people wouldn't be allowed in the theatre at all.

But your own OP acknowledged that white people aren't banned.

I would imagine that Martin Luther King Jr. would be more concerned with the amount of systemic racism and the rising tide of fascism in the world than a night at the theatre.

As a white woman, I don't tend to comment on these threads, but I do think it's very telling that whenever someone posts on here asking if something is racist, there's always a pile on of people shouting that it's not, and the poster is oversensitive (before rushing off to the feminism forum to rant about men taking over women's spaces).

Gives me a clearer understanding of why a safe space might be desirable in this instance.

I don't like segregation at all. I understand the point of this and what the theatre is trying to do, but the more we segregate the longer racism will hang about.

One of the students I'm working with in my team says her uni is doing some separate teaching for BAME and non BAME people. It's to give the BAME people a safe space to discuss racism without being inadvertently offended by anyone non BAME. Personally I think it's a ridiculous idea. Racism and division will not end by people continuing to segregate on colour.

What if you are not sure where you fall? What if you are white looking with a black parent? What if the divisions are not so easy to see.

The colour of a person's skin tells us nothing more than the colour of their skin. We cannot make assumptions about cultural background, experiences of racism or anything else by looking at someone. Dividing people up based solely on colour is bonkers IMO.

Exactly how I'm reading it as well and finding the whole "but it's segregation" just completely warped and melodramatic. It's honestly no wonder Black Mumsnetters feel they need a board of their own. It's nothing more than a ONE night 'safe space', for an audience who might not otherwise feel comfortable watching a play exploring issues of race with a mixed audience. That's all it is. And to argue that it wouldn't happen the other way around is disingenuous and ignorant to say the very least. It's a successful inititive elsewhere already, so surely attempts to attract larger and more diverse groups to attend the theatre (and let's face it theatres took a hell of a knock during Covid) can only be a good thing.

But apartheid was, and is, inherently wrong.
It is a massively retrograde step in these supposedly enlightened and tolerant times to advocate for racial segregation.

That's not what's happening here, please stop being so stupid!

This

Segregation was the forced enactment of US racism under the law. Black Americans were forced permanently into inferior schools, hospitals, housing etc. They were not allowed to share the same bus seats or theatre seats at all. They were denied a full vote until 1965.

This is a voluntary gathering of black people to watch a play that reflects their experience of racism. In every other performance, mixed audiences can watch and learn together. In one performance, white audiences are asked to voluntarily abstain from the show so that black audiences can watch it in a different context.

These things are not the same.

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Fantastic post

This!!! So many of you don't notice because you are the majority. Somehow it's ok for women to have special events, but black people??!! Never.

You sound like men fighting to be invited to women only spaces, except you aren't even being excluded.

Not everything is about white women.

I don't find it offensive and have no issue with it. Fact is that it's not the same the other way round. I am sure that some black people will feel a lot more comfortable on this night and why shouldn't they get to go and enjoy something while not feeling uncomfortable in any way by the presence of some white people. They have stuff in common and can relate in a way that white people can't.

So if my white sister and her black African husband were only able to see the show on a blackout night, she’d have to
miss out on it in order to not spoil the black audience’s enjoyment of their freedom from “white gaze”? Or go along, and feel uncomfortable knowing that the organisers preferred her not to be there?

I think it’s an interesting idea. Less about segregation but about the collective historic trauma of the audience. Similar to if a play about the holocaust encouraged a Jewish only audience. It’s because the subject matter is something that would deeply affect those who are part of the group the play is about. Everyone in a room connecting on that level could be a powerful thing, which could change the viewing experience compared to an evening with a more diverse audience. Hope it goes well for them!

No one's saying they're the same. It's just the principle of dividing people up by colour that doesn't sit right.

Well I’m a black woman and I don’t find it offensive or a step backwards at all. It’s one show that isn’t catering to white feelings. It is no different to me than women gathering to talk about women only experiences without being expected to justify and parade them around for men because they “don’t understand.”

The safety aspect only goes so far as well, I feel. In a breastfeeding group is the concern that dads are going to attack the women? No. It’s that they’re talking about something vulnerable and personal and shouldn’t have to do that in front of people who will minimize or not understand or center the conversations on themselves. Or if you want a woman doctor. Is it because you think you’ll be assaulted by a male doctors? It has happened but how often? “Rare” is somewhat subjective when it comes to frequency. But since racist attacks are “rare” then we shouldn’t allow black people to have black only experiences. Yet I would not fault a woman for wanting a woman doctor just because it makes her feel more comfortable rather than it being because she’s in danger.

White women on here have frequently invaded and complained about the black mumsnet board, and have also complained that they should be allowed to have their feminism board without men or TRAs or having the boards split. That has nothing to do with safety. But you know what happens when you let men in? They invalidate, take over, #notallmen, and pile on about male suicide rates or whatever. But I suppose we shouldn’t have those spaces anymore because equality with men will only be achieved by giving them access to our spaces and conversations all the time? I don’t want to argue with white people that the racism I experience isn’t just me being sensitive just like they don’t want to do the same about sexism and men.

There is plenty of nuance involved and black people aren’t a monolith, as was importantly pointed out to me again, but I think the talk of being banned and segregated are intentionally inflammatory and hypocritical. And predictable because white women, usually, like to call out all men and hold them accountable for the Patriarchy but don’t like it when all white people get the same treatment. Y’all understand power dynamics just fine when you’re on the receiving end.

I don't find it offensive. Where I live, there are few black people and in the gym this week I saw a black couple doing their workout. I wondered what it must be like for them to be in such a 'white' space, how they must feel? It's not intentionally a white demographic here, it just is, very little diversity.

I think the theatre 'black out' is a very good idea.

I did the whole that's awful etc etc to start with but heard the reason why being sensibly discussed “for once” on GMB and I get it now. Have a look at clip on YouTube.

Isn’t it usually dark at the theatre?

Acts against discrimination mean everyone is equal
Everyone has a choice, a say and an equal chance.
As long as POC see themselves as different,( I’m not referring to celebrating culture here btw ) and I include all colours here, then some POC msy avoid certain situations because they differentiate between themselves and others by colour alone.
So, surely, by not sounding anyone out as different they / we will not see ourselves as different and will follow our dreams irrespective of this.

I didn’t, my dh and dcs and relatives didn’t.
Black people we know are rising above this blame game. This idea we have more rights than white people. We don’t. If everyone had the same idea no one would label anyone and so no one would see the difference in the classroom if their teacher was a POC.

And so. OPs concerns are, to us, exactly that….a concern as we once again move in the wrong direction.

I really don't think race and gender can be treated the same. Black is a skintone. The idea of a "black community" is nonsensical - what characterises black people's lifestyles is far too diverse to form such a category. Perhaps you could make an event for people of Jamaican heritage, or people descended from the Windrush generation, or 2nd generation Nigerian immigrants. But categorising people by their skintone alone is absurd.

Men and women, on the other hand, can be categorised into two groups because biologically, down to our very chromosomes, we fall into two obviously distinct categories.