To think young women just don’t realise... (TW: fertility/ TTC)

[DespairingALittle]

Nc as this combined with various other posts would be outing, this is a bugbear I’ve thought about a lot when ttc myself and something today brought it up again...

Anyhow, AIBU to think ladies In their late twenties who freeze their eggs (or plan to as a ‘failsafe’) don’t realise it’s not a guarantee or the same as ‘pressing pause’ on biology?

This comes about as i was chatting to childhood friend (29, same as me) about kids (I have recently had DS so this is why we were chatting about kids) and she said ‘oh x (school pal) froze her eggs recently, if I haven’t had kids by 33 I’ll do the same, x is so relieved to press pause and take the pressure off’ another friend has also mentioned egg freezing recently for the same reason, both have just said they don’t want the responsibility of kids yet but are in a ‘good’ position to do so ... each to their own but all I could think was that it’s all well and good but it doesn’t guarantee anything! Sadly the demon biology also makes it harder to carry as you age too, it’s not all about eggs!

I just think so many in my generation have the attitude that it will just happen later regardless thanks to science but everyone I know who has had kids or tried to have kids later has struggled (not a guarantee ofc but a statistical probability nonetheless)... interested to hear other people’s thoughts on this. Perhaps this is more of a ‘my circle of friends’ issue than a wider one.

YANBU - it’s a concern, many may end up disappointed in the future, not to mention already falling birth rates etc
YABU - mind your own!

I’m 30, no kids yet. I would never be able to buy a house where I live if I’d had kids at 25/26, I’d have settled for a much less desirable area and never break into the nicer bit as house prices rise. You can travel after kids, maybe 2-3 weeks a year long haul maximum if still working. But you can’t quit your job and backpack on a shoestring for months at a time with your kids.

A carefree twenties is very different to being 45+ and trying to have that same crazy social life, you can’t pretend it’s the same. As a doctor I’m very very aware that not everyone makes it to 50 and not everyone is healthy enough to enjoy their retirement. I’m not banking on being able to tick off most of my bucket list in later middle age, I want to do some of it now. Plus very few female doctors have kids in their 20s, majority become GPs instead of hospital doctors if they have kids and I don’t want to be a GP!

I’ll start trying in a couple of years. Not because I want to yet (my life is great now) but because my biological clock is ticking. If the NHS didn’t move hospital registrars potentially 2 hours away from their home for a 6 month rotation at a different hospital with 3 months notice then maybe we’d consider kids earlier 🤷🏻‍♀️.

I would never trade in my experiences of uni, backpacking, living abroad, holidays, dating and meeting my partner to have kids at 25 odd. Yes I might be less fertile in my 30s. But I had a great time waiting! You have to decide what’s more important to you. I wanted the travel etc some people are more family orientated - both are very valid choices.

That’s a separate issue @Neurodiversitydoctor and a valid reason for having kids earlier, but not the point of the thread.

Thread relates to OP’s friends choosing to postpone family and focus on career/travel in late 20s/early 30s.

OP had some deluded idea that people in their 50s have the ability/inclination to party in Ibiza and go inter-railing…

Which I pointed out is not likely in terms of their physical capabilities/financial circumstances.

But you can’t quit your job and backpack on a shoestring for months at a time with your kids

Er we did actually ( well travelled through Europe with a campervan)
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https://www.britishfertilitysociety.org.uk/fei/at-what-age-does-fertility-begin-to-decrease/

As a survivor of the fertility go-round, (daughter born at 42 after 2x IVF) here's a share of my experiences:

1. The fertility clinics pre-screen women's day 3 FSH and anyone over 16 is told not to proceed (this means you are peri-menopausal) - because it's a waste of your money and it ruins their success stats. Thus only a minority get to have IVF aged over 40.
2. Even after pre-screening and only allowing women with a chance of success to proceed to IVF, the success rates over 40 are still about 12% per woman. That means for every 100 women spending £10K per cycle 88 will have no baby.
3. The clinics selling egg freezing to younger women are selling a myth: frozen eggs only have about a 10% chance of success for any given cycle.
4. Many women drop out of IVF due to the gruelling injection regime, the effect of the drugs etc. I was told it was as stressful as cancer treatment and only succeeded with the help of a support group. Look up intra-muscular progesterone injections for clear idea. It's a horse needle.
5. Those lovely px of movie stars with their twins born after the age of 45? They are all using egg donors. Of course they can't say publicly, this is private information for their children when grown - but my Californian IVF fertility practice let me know that they did not use women's own eggs on anyone undergoing IVF over aged 45 because the chances of success were so poor.

To sum up: for me, there's no trade-off - enjoyment of 30's and 'freedom' for then undergoing a procedure with a 12% chance of succeeding using incredibly expensive, painful, gruelling IVF ...

That's if it's a choice. Many are waiting, as I was, to meet the right person, to settle down, for the time to be right.

The right time, as I learned, was in my late 20's/early 30's.

When my daughter asked me why I had her so late (she worked out I'll be 82 when she's 40) I told her that I was busy travelling the world, climbing Ayres Rock, going overland across Africa...

She said 'I would have come with you' (she was 8 years old at the time).

Heartbreaking. I would have traded all those experiences to have more time with her - or to have had the chance to have a few more children.

I tend to agree OP. Anecdotally, I had my first at 20, and now pregnant with my second at 28. I conceived both times in the first month of trying. No miscarriages. Healthy, straightforward pregnancies.

My sister conceived two in her 20s, same story as me. Then, she tried to conceive a third in her mid-30s. It took her almost a year, with 2 miscarriages. My mum had a miscarriage between me and my sister, again, she was in her 20s with my sister and 30s with me. I have lots of friends in their 30s & 40s, and all share similar stories of TTC for a good few months and having miscarriages.

Anecdotal, but my experience.

But that is the logical outcome to deliberately delaying childbearing to your 40's.

Also I'd rather ris not being fit enough to interail than risk not being able to care for teenagers properly (and yes teens need a lot of parenting).

I agree OP

Unless you freeze dozens of eggs in your twenties may as well not bother doing it in your mid to late thirties onwards but women love to delude themselves especially when it comes to fertility

As someone who was infertile by age 35 I'll be drumming into my kids the importance of fertility and not to be naive - science can only do so much and isn't the magic cure it's made out to be

I think it's the women who think they have forever to have a baby and see women having kids way beyond 40 and think it's the norm now so they'll be fine and dont even bother with egg freezing that are more at risk of missing the boat. I have a close friend who is 40 and acts like she's got all the time in the world, she's been busy travelling, planning/having a wedding, career stuff, buying a new house, then doing up the new house. To add to the complication she's also in a same sex marriage (she was married to a man for over a decade before this but never tried for children). She does really want kids and at least 1 to be biologically hers yet here she is 40 and she's still not even started the process. She's going to do ivf and I think in her head that buys her lots of time. I had a chat with her about it with a few other friends when we were out for a meal about 4 years ago now and she got mad that I pointed out her age and how she is running out of time. It wasn't coming from a place of smugness I promise more just "have you really looked into it and sooner is better than later". The women who freeze eggs do have some level of understanding that freezing eggs doesn't = guaranteed baby in x years, I think it's more the people like my friend who would rather just pretend that age isn't an issue here and that she needs to get on with it before the ship sails. I generally don't care what other women do but I know my friend wants kids, I'll be sad if she doesn't have her own child, she can of course still be a mum through her wife who is over a decade younger but she actually wants a biological child. I think by the time she gets around to it she'll be too old.

I have voted YABU.

Their options are to TTC now when they’re in their fertility prime.
Or wait until they’re older and ready for kids.

They do not want kids now and TTC now would be the wrong decision.

So their only other option is to wait until they’re older.
So they either do nothing and wait or try and increase the chances of having a child when the time comes.

Of course it’s still hard to have a child over a certain age but you’ve got more chance of doing so if you freeze your eggs/embryos than doing nothing.

Maybe not at 29 but in my circle it has been more common than not to be in your mid-20s by the time you finished education/training (doctors, lawyers, vets, PhDs) and then you want time to get settled into the career.

Such a heartbreaking post! 💐

There is nothing financially stopping anyone having kids then later going to uni in the uk in terms of entitlement to student finance (yes kids are expensive though). If you don’t already hold a degree you could have kids and work and wait until 35+ to get one provided you have the entry requirements. I am NOT saying this is necessarily a preferable/the most ideal option before my words are twisted. But it is possible. You’re no less entitled to higher education at 45 than 18.

I remember the Kardashians froze their eggs and then every single egg perished when they tried to defreeze (word?) them.

Presumably the Kardashians had the best procedures, doctors etc - so that shocked me. It almost seemed like a pointless thing to do unless you freeze a massive number of eggs, or freeze an embryo (which seems to be less prone to perishing)

Not arguing either way.

Just saying it is unreasonable for OP, or anyone to “worry” or chastise others choices.

There is no ideal, pros/cons either way depending on what your priorities are.

All of which is perfectly true. She's right to feel that way.

When I was 25 I thought IVF was implanting a guaranteed baby in your belly. I was so shocked when a colleague told me she miscarried via IVF and had an unsuccessful attempt. I think there’s so much focus on not getting pregnant when you’re young that you’re ignorant to the trails and tribulations of getting pregnant, if you’re unfortunate enough to find out about those it’s likely already too late.

Hmm on that. I know 2 female consultants who wanted to "get settled" in their careers. Both got their consultant posts in their 30's ( one was 34, one was 36 or 37) they both had fertility struggles and underwent IVF one of them has one child, several IVF attempts and at least one miscarriage. The other has had multiple IVF attempts and a miscarriage, so far no baby she is 43 this year...

@usererror99

I’ll be drumming into my kids that they should do what makes them happy, enjoy their lives and not feel pressured into doing things they are not ready for as ultimately this is not in their best interests.

Having a baby is a huge commitment and should ideally only be undertaken when a person can cope with it, is in a secure relationship and actually wants it.

I know plenty of people who’ve had successful natural pregnancies in their late 30s and early 40s. There’s so much scaremongering around fertility when for most people it isn’t an issue. We only ever hear about people’s struggles though.

I’m not the only one of my friends to accidentally get pregnant later on. My surprises were at ages 38 and 42, but I wouldn’t go telling people that. Yet I’ve heard the ins and outs of multiple people’s IVF/IUI journies.

This is true I know of successful pregnancies of women of 46!, 43 and 42. Although one of the little girls I am fairly sure is neurodiverse and one of the others is due in July.

My experience is the opposite.

My sister had two children in her 20's, both times took a year and both times involved 2-3 miscarriages. She also had difficult, complicated pregnancies.

I'm 35 and have a 5 month old. Conceived first month of trying, no miscarriages and my pregnancy was straightforward.

Agree @Tooclosetodanger

I got pregnant naturally late twenties because of gynae issues and doctors terrifying me with the spectre of fertility issues at 25.

I dropped what I was doing academically/work wise to get on because I was so scared of having the chance taken away. Thinking I could pick it up later.

One DC is disabled. It is a huge commitment and I will not get the chances to pursue my own interests again to the same extent.

Am now being pressured by docs to have a final child or have final op.

I’m not allowing myself to feel bullied about it this time.

Women should pursue having children when they are ready to, be that younger or older.

The implications of either choice are their own to deal with and it isn’t for others to petrify them either way.

Anecdotal evidence doesn't mean anything. We can always find examples to contradict what is broadly the case.