To think young women just don’t realise... (TW: fertility/ TTC)

[DespairingALittle]

Nc as this combined with various other posts would be outing, this is a bugbear I’ve thought about a lot when ttc myself and something today brought it up again...

Anyhow, AIBU to think ladies In their late twenties who freeze their eggs (or plan to as a ‘failsafe’) don’t realise it’s not a guarantee or the same as ‘pressing pause’ on biology?

This comes about as i was chatting to childhood friend (29, same as me) about kids (I have recently had DS so this is why we were chatting about kids) and she said ‘oh x (school pal) froze her eggs recently, if I haven’t had kids by 33 I’ll do the same, x is so relieved to press pause and take the pressure off’ another friend has also mentioned egg freezing recently for the same reason, both have just said they don’t want the responsibility of kids yet but are in a ‘good’ position to do so ... each to their own but all I could think was that it’s all well and good but it doesn’t guarantee anything! Sadly the demon biology also makes it harder to carry as you age too, it’s not all about eggs!

I just think so many in my generation have the attitude that it will just happen later regardless thanks to science but everyone I know who has had kids or tried to have kids later has struggled (not a guarantee ofc but a statistical probability nonetheless)... interested to hear other people’s thoughts on this. Perhaps this is more of a ‘my circle of friends’ issue than a wider one.

YANBU - it’s a concern, many may end up disappointed in the future, not to mention already falling birth rates etc
YABU - mind your own!

But they aren’t upset. You’re worried about some hypothetical scenario that might never happen and is none of your business if it did.

I hope it doesn’t of course! I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. It’s not my business but if they did have problems they would likely share that with me and I’d want to be there for them. Yes you have to let people make their own choices but I think it’s normal to hope you’re friends don’t have to go through something bad if it doesn’t work out.

In 2021 there were 1500 women in the UK freezing their eggs. A good number of these are women undergoing treatments such as for cancer, not people looking to hold back time. It also costs £8000+ a go.

It's not a widespread concern, nor are women unaware - unless they're intentionally not listening - that their fertility falls off after 35.

Yabu

Why is this always looked on as the woman's issue alone? While I know several women who had partners eager to settle and have kids in their twenties, I know a hell of a lot more who are up for having kids at 28/32/36 but first need to persuade the potential father that it's the right time. For many (including me) this took years.

So if you're starting a campaign to make young women better informed, please do inform the men too. They certainly have far less awareness of things like PCOS, miscarriage, IVF and so on than most women do, since we discuss this stuff (and in some cases read MN).

I looked up the statistics out of interest and found this:

”What are the odds of getting pregnant from frozen eggs?

In general 6 out of 8 eggs will survive the freezing and thawing process. Of these 6 eggs the chance of a live birth is somewhere between 32% and 18% depending on the age of the woman at the time she freezes her eggs.”

I don’t either, but I still respect their autonomy and their ability to make decisions they deem to be best for them.

There’s always the potential for regret whatever choice is made, and ultimately it’s not something you can protect people from.

It isn’t women’s responsibility to prop up the birth rate, either. Women shouldn’t be encouraged to have kids they neither want nor are ready for.

Good point!

Meh. I'm shit at parenting anyway. Wish I hand t had any, I've given them nothing but heartache.l like my parents did to me.

This is a very good point indeed. I personally feel it should be on the curriculum with later sex Ed (perhaps some already is? I haven’t been at high school for 10+ years!) - I’ll admit I was lucky to have a partner who wants kids at the same time as me and who was willing to learn. I know that’s not the norm!

"women in their 30s who want kids are ready for it - but trying to find a good man is pretty hard. That’s the one factor that I feel delays everything, including for myself. Most men are delaying kids."

This is my experience and that of my closest friends. Despite being 10 years older than me, DH seemed to be having some sort of magical, airy "maybe someday" thinking going on and kind of avoiding reality till I pretty much had to spell it out when I was getting into my late 30s and say, more or less, "Right, you have confirmed a few times that you do want children "some day" so we're doing it. We're doing it now. I'm coming off the pill now. There is a decent chance that you could be a dad by this time next year. Is that OK? If it's OK, the pills are going in the bin and I'm going straight down the shops for folic acid+vit D. Last chance to not have children, speak now or forever hold your sperm" He said OK, that was that, fortunately I got pregnant first go and had my children at 37 and 40.

I think if we'd just kept on occasionally having "maybe" conversations and I hadn't grabbed the steering wheel and charted the course, he might have finally come up with a more definite plan than "some day" when I was about 45, then have been surprised and sad if we couldn't conceive quickly together and have me just pop out a couple of healthy babies a couple of years apart at will.

Which is absolutely NOT to say that I think women should just toughen up, take the reins and make their menfolk have babies and it's all the woman's fault if she doesn't. I agonised for a long time, I didn't want to push him into it. I do think a lot of men need to get their head out of the clouds and face biological reality.

Are you trying to say that a woman who is considering freezing her eggs doesn't understand how she will use those eggs later and it is never explained to her? You said "clinics don't tell women that they'll HAVE to have ivf to use those eggs". I mean come on surely the large majority of people who have got to the point of thinking about doing this realise they'll have to have them put back in somehow??? The egg freezing procedure itself is the first half of an ivf cycle. The only thing you don't do is fertilise them and put them back. But the drugs and collection is exactly the same. Of course clinics will explain this and how the procedure works. Besides surely these supposedly stupid women don't think you just swallow them or something to get them back inside???

Exactly.

It’s incredibly patronising to assume women are making the wrong choices and don’t know their own mind (that kind of misogyny belongs in the dustbin of history), when it’s more likely that they have weighed up the risks and have decided waiting a few years is the right decision for them.

One thing that’s worth saying again, is some people just don’t care that much about babies. They may want them, but not at the expense of other things which are more important to them. The tragedy OP is imagining will befall her friends may not be a tragedy at all.

I’m a fan of the SATC quote “If I really wanted a baby, wouldn’t I have tried to have one by now?” (Said by the 38 year-old Carrie). It captures a very common sentiment among the thirtysomething women I know.

They care enough to consider a costly and invasive procedure though (I think without fully appreciating the cost or invasiveness) and that’s the point. If they didn’t care then they would simply say ‘I’d like kids one day but it’s not a priority for me so I won’t actively try yet and if it never happens that’s okay’ and that’s not at all what they are saying. I dint have any issues with someone who doesn’t want kids not having them!

@DespairingALittle

I have got halfway through your posts and it’s utterly baffling.

All “I worry, I worry, I worry”

Why??

They are grown adult women. Their fertility choices are nothing to do with you. And with the added time they have they and their partners will be able to better their career prospects and salaries thus that having to spend for assisted reproduction/surrogacy if required won’t worry them that much.

I completely disagree about the holidaying and enjoying life - my holidays are now centred around Centre parcs, swimming pools, amusements - in short KID activities.

And by the time I am done with trailing around kids stuff I will be in my 50s….

Fuck that.

I had to start my family at a similar age to you being pressured by doctors about fertility due to illness. Egg harvesting was not given as an option, but it really would have taken the pressure off to allow me to develop my career interests more fully and enjoy youth before all the stresses of motherhood when your life is not your own anymore.

Love my DC.

But seriously fair play to your friends they are standing up for themselves and what they want in life.

If they face issues later on then so be it. It’s their choice and not your place to “worry” just because you have made the choice to reproduce at 29 and feel this is somehow superior…

Babies are not the be all and end all for all.

Well I do have 2 friends who froZe at mid 30s ( 35-37) and had their babies at 40-43. Ivf was horrid and requires a few gos but it happened in the end, luckily. It would probably have been harder without the frozen eggs due to egg health

It's all very well having presumably met your partner early and had your child at a perfect age for fertility.

Unfortunately not everyone is so lucky and it might provide them with a bit of reassurance thar they may have some chance of having children if they don't meet anyone straight away. I think a lot of the problem is the number of men that want to wait until their late thirties before having a family. How does that work for those young women they meet in their twenties/early thirties and whose fertile years they squander making vague promises about starting a family at some point in the future?

We're also told we're mad to have children before having a career which enables us to support ourselves financially, which can take a number of years.

I think there has to be more education in schools about practical "Life" matters anyway. How not to get yourself into financial problems. How to spot warnings signs of a controlling, abusive person.

Part of the trouble is that there are plenty of women having babies later, but it's not clear how many there are out there who wanted to have them later but found they couldn't. It makes it look like it's easy to have them later, because you only see the ones who succeeded.

I know of two couples in their 30's who appeared to be 'putting it off' despite being married for several years and financially settled. In reality, they were having difficulty conceiving. If they hadn't succeeded in the end, I doubt either would have let on.

The dr who said that she hasn’t seen people go on to have babies probably meant not many people come back to try . It’s likely a lot eventually conceive spontaneously or decide not to have kids?

@powershowerforanhour Oh you're clearly married to my husband as well.
I wish there was a book you could give them like people have on puberty for tweens. Perhaps called something like "My wife wants a baby, what should I do?" with some facts and figures, info on how long things can take and what can go wrong, and a rough guide to pregnancy and babies!

I don't think a lot of men have truly processed that if their wife/partner isn't able to have kids any more - and they want to stay together - he also won't be having any kids.

I worry because they are people I care about and I hope fertility doesn’t end up being an issue for them both. Sorry you felt pushed into it by your doctors and that you didn’t have more options. A little ageist to think you can’t enjoy life/holidays etc at 50 no? I consider 50 quite young nowadays. Unless this specifically relates to you and the illness that means it will be harder for you?

Yes, this x 1000!

Neb out OP.

I agree, I hadn’t quite been able to articulate this but I think this is very much a real phenomenon.

Basically it comes down to this: Your health and energy is much more guaranteed in your late 20's, and 30's than in your 50 and 60's. Do you prioritise self actualisation or parenting in those years of peak physical fitness ? Chances are if you are a parent at all you will be doing it in your 40's.