ParkRun and Transgender record breaker

[PennysLane]

Trans runner (M to F) has smashed a woman’s record. Turns out he’s an attempted murderer too.

He attempted to murder the HR Manager of U.K. Athletics after he investigated his eligibility to compete as a woman. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Jeska )

I have enjoyed Parkrun on several occasions with my children, I’ll not be doing it again until they get this sorted. If at all.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/22/parkrun-self-id-male-runners-smash-womens-records/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/23/transgender-murder-parkrun/

(I’m agreeing and adding to the post I quoted)

Surely the only solution at this point is 4 catergories. Biological woman, gendered woman, biological man, gendered man. People can choose the category that they prefer. If men and women only wish to run against someone of their own biology then they enter than class but if they prefer a more inclusive experience then they enter as per their gender. At this point that is the only way I genuinely think everyone can be kept happy. It is all inclusive, takes into account different beliefs. If park run is supposed to be fun then I can’t see why this would be a problem

takes into account different beliefs

Since when did my DNA determining that I am a woman become a belief?

I think the difficulty is that parkrun (all one word, small p btw) as a free , inclusive run means it can have multiple uses.
Technically it's a timed run, not a race....but actually a lot of people are racing - even if only against their own time from last month etc. The "first finisher " and table of results and recording of individual pbs suggests that can be (if you want it to be) competitive. But the fact that lots of people do it as a social activity, can take young children or, push buggies, take dogs etc or, or to improve general fitness makes it different from actual races.
If the categories are gender rather than biological sex then as a poster on the feminism board* pointed out, this will skew the age graded results for women as there will be some men's results in there too. And if sex doesn't matter, then should age matter,... what if a fast 18 year old identified as an under 10 and won junior parkrun, would we ask all the under 10s to get a grip because it isn't really a competition?

*@PennysLane there is a very similar debate on the feminism board where you might find some different views to here.

I'm going to say you're missing the point there love

Wow - from Wiki

In March 2016 she attacked Ralph Knibbs, a former professional rugby player and UK Athletics HR manager, with a knife, at Alexander Stadium, in Birmingham. Jeska stabbed Knibbs in the head and neck, resulting in a 2 cm hole with blood pumping out. She claimed she feared UK Athletics would strip her of her records and her eligibility to compete against female athletes.[2][7] Jeska also attacked Tim Begley and Kevan Taylor, employees of UKA who came to Knibbs's aid.[7]

I think the fact he tried to kill a UK athletics official is a huge issue. That should mean a lifetime ban.

The gender issues, agree that it would be helpful to have male, female, gendered male and female categories for lots of sports.

Well none of us treat it so seriously that we've committed attempted murder on one of the officials, so if that's your criteria...

He attempted to murder the HR Manager of U.K. Athletics after he investigated his eligibility to compete as a woman.

Crikey

This action sound much more like the actions of a man than a woman.

A lot of people don't care about records when it comes to parkrun, and that is, of course, absolutely fine.

Some people do care though, and the idea that someone who was born a man, with all the natural advantages that comes with that can hold any record at all in any activity that is classed as a female record is clearly utter bullshit.

He can run but not have the time recorded. Just don't get the barcode scanned or take a number at the end. Or Parkrun could have a Trans category.

And he's rightly doing time in prison for it. Doesn't change the fact that parkrun is non-competitive.

Oh I can run quite fast when I really want to. I've been first in age group a couple of times, on the harder trail courses granted, but still it's amazing the difference 1 day can make when you're changing age group. And yes it's nice to be able to say you were 1st in something, but I didn't get any prizes for it, because there are no prizes. And if I remember rightly the week after when I didn't get 1st in age group, I was actually quicker.

So you take a pride in your performance and enjoy the element of competition, however ‘relaxed’ it is re accuracy. There are other female runners who really strive to be the fastest and this element of competition is clearly popular, however informal.

It has a certain degree of inaccuracy built in but that is the same for everyone and their expectations can be set. Pretending that you have sex based categories for fairness when you don’t is deception.

Do you really think it is ok to take this sense of achievement away from women by allowing a male to set a record that unachievable for women? Who benefits from this? Men who wouldn’t have any noteable achievements in the mens list get to set records if listed as a woman. Women miss out.

It's clear that a lot of posters don't run, walk or jog, let alone do so at parkrun. Even fewer volunteer or work for parkrun.

Complaining about an event you've never participated in is akin to giving a restaurant a one-star review when you've never eaten there and have no intention of ever doing so.

Just... why?

I can't stand parkrun. The enforced jollity and the photographer and everyone pretending to be non competitive when they are. I've done it a few times and it always puts me in a bad mood. I like actual races though oddly.

Some people do care though, and the idea that someone who was born a man, with all the natural advantages that comes with that can hold any record at all in any activity that is classed as a female record is clearly utter bullshit.

This.

It's clear that a lot of posters don't run, walk or jog, let alone do so at parkrun. Even fewer volunteer or work for parkrun.

So? I don't like cheaters or sexism. I'm not an aspiring Olympic athlete either.

It clearly is competitive for some people, or there wouldn't be a "female best" time.

Because the principal applies to all of life now.

Men who say that they are women think they have the right to be treated as such.

Women are entitled to have an opinion on this. It doesn't matter if you haven't done a park run, if you think that women exist independently of men who identify as trans, then this issue is one that matters.

And it really fucking matters if you have a daughter with an interest in sport. My daughter is training and has a dream of being a professional cricketer. Should her dream be smashed if a mediocre male decides to identify as a woman to get a professional contract?

Park run or small events are the thin end of the wedge.

Because you can still care about things you are not involved in.

I believe strongly in female rights, but that doesn't mean I have to hate trans people. Believing in female rights and trans rights are not mutually exclusive things, you know...

Do you seriously believe that any of this is about hating trans people? It’s absolutely not. That is such a TRA thing to say. No GC person is questioning a trans person’s existence or their right to exist. I’m sure there are a few nutters who are, but they don’t speak for GC women. That’s absolutely not what the issue is.

When you see those placards demanding ‘Trans Rights Now!’ what exactly do you think is being demanded? What rights do you think are being denied to Trans people that they don’t currently have? Could it be for men to have the right to access single sex spaces without being questioned, irrespective of the feelings and wishes of the women using those spaces? Could it be the right for men to be placed in a female prison, alongside female inmates, irrespective of whether they haven’t paid their TV licences or they’re a violent sex offender? Could it be for men to smash female sporting records and take highly prized spaces on podiums? Which of these ‘rights’ don’t have a significant impact on women’s rights? Women have been kind forever. We’ve budged over and made room. But enough is enough. We’ve been so inclusive that we’re now starting to exclude ourselves. Men cannot have our spaces. Men cannot have our achievements. Men cannot make us into merely a subsection of female. The answer is No.

Also, I can’t find the poster who wrote this now, but sex is not ‘assigned’ at birth. It’s observed.

It's really, really not the same. At all.

Are you serious? You’re not really seeing the bigger picture here, are you?

They could stop men running in the womens category, and also remove the titles of men who attempt murder over those titles?