ParkRun and Transgender record breaker

[PennysLane]

Trans runner (M to F) has smashed a woman’s record. Turns out he’s an attempted murderer too.

He attempted to murder the HR Manager of U.K. Athletics after he investigated his eligibility to compete as a woman. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Jeska )

I have enjoyed Parkrun on several occasions with my children, I’ll not be doing it again until they get this sorted. If at all.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/22/parkrun-self-id-male-runners-smash-womens-records/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/23/transgender-murder-parkrun/

Firstly when someone finished the organizers would necessarily know if the person is registered as female or male so wouldn’t know that they were the first female finisher and that it was a female course record.

I think there are lots of male to females out there who I would not be able to notice as being trans. Additionally there are many females who can look quite masculine. If I was volunteering I would not want to judge and accuse someone of lying.

Being discussed on World at One (Radio 4) right now

She speaks for all women who have woken up to what is actually happening. If you're not tired of this you're not paying attention.

Ok but some people like to see how they are doing compared to others. It doesn’t make it a race but it can be interesting for their own motivation and if you can’t distinguish whether those who are a lot faster than you are male or female may mean that some women feel less empowered. Why should the woman who is the first female finisher miss out on knowing that she is the first female finisher, instead they would have to try and compete against the men to try and be the first finisher which is know is extremely difficult.

She speaks for plenty of women, that's enough to mean that she should get to speak about it.

Ok but some people like to see how they are doing compared to others. It doesn’t make it a race but it can be interesting for their own motivation and if you can’t distinguish whether those who are a lot faster than you are male or female may mean that some women feel less empowered.

Well how do you think women beaten by men even though they are fastest might feel? Women here have said how it would make them feel. The lesser of the two evils seems to be to treat it as the fun run you and others claim it is.

The lesser of the two evils seems to be to treat it as the fun run you and others claim it is.

But that doesn't validate the cheating males does it?

Has anyone linked to the official parkrun position re gender/sex on their support site?

https://support.parkrun.com/hc/en-us/articles/360005339137-Gender

After careful consideration and extensive consultation, we decided to continue categorising people based on gender rather than assigned sex. We feel this in-line with our ethos of non-competitive socially-focussed physical activity, and allows people to identify in the way they feel most appropriate and comfortable. In addition, we expanded the range of options that a person could choose from.
In all countries we operate in, parkrunners can now record their gender as male or female, or alternatively they are free to keep that information private by selecting “prefer not to say”.

Further, in the majority of parkrun countries we also offer a fourth option of “another gender identity”. Note: We have a duty of care to our communities and volunteers, and as such in a small number of countries this option is not available for legal, cultural and/or safeguarding reasons.

Gender options are available during registration and can also be subsequently changed through a parkrunner’s parkrun profile.

It is not appropriate or practical for us to request proof or adjudicate the validity of a person’s gender identity, just as we would and could not ask every single one of our 8 million registered participants to evidence other stated details, whether that be their name, age, postcode or activity level. Our position, therefore, is that we publish results based on a person’s self-declared information, including gender.

I get that it’s not nice to be beaten by a female who isn’t female but I just don’t think the alternative is to say that the category woman no longer exists as the vast majority of people registered as female are biologically female. And I don’t see how it is possible to hold park run accountable if someone does register differently as it is not possible based on the nature of the event to police it.

it’s no different to someone lying about their age on parkrun. In some ways age would be easier to police as id can show your age, id won’t necessarily show your biological sex.

thanks @givemushypeasachance (love your name)

I hadn't relised it was so reliant on volunteers. I still think they need to make up their minds about if they're a competitive run or not. Especially given what you said about them being happy about the average times and having a tail walker rather than runner.

I get that it’s not nice to be beaten by a female who isn’t female

Yes, a man. This isn't going to go away.

It's a charity with a small number of paid staff, mostly based in West London.

Things like t-shirts and branding are dealt with by HQ. Sales of parkrun merchandise and grants from sponsorship are used for purposes such as subsidising new events and funding the limited paid staff.

The actual events themselves, the events in the park, are run by unpaid volunteers. On any given Saturday, all of the volunteers could be volunteering for the very first time. We're not talking highly trained professionals here.

The volunteers generally aim for accurate times, but when that doesn't happen, for any one of a million plausible and valid reasons, no one cares. Because, as has been said so many times on this thread, the times don't count for anything.

Times from official races are taken seriously. Times from parkruns are not.

In terms of organisation, you basically have HQ and then a little group of local volunteers at every location. They are basically doing the day-to-day stuff themselves (including getting those results up on the website) but adhering to rules set by HQ centrally.

Thats what puts me off though. Can they not just compete against their mates or something. I'm not going to lie if I did it I'd be so slow and I'd hate for it to be someone going at least I'm not as slow as her.

Has anyone linked to the official parkrun position re gender/sex on their support site?

People are taking issue with it, it doesn't stop it being unfair to women.

As soon as there is one man in the womens group, the womens group no longer exists. And we all know there is a lot more than one man in the womens group.

And I don’t see how it is possible to hold park run accountable if someone does register differently as it is not possible based on the nature of the event to police it.

Then the only fair thing to do is get rid of the M/F.

also thanks to @andifeelfine for the explanation.

I feel that parkrun are being disingenuous (at best, cowardly at worst - for reasons i do understand) here.

Either it's a competition - in which case publish results/categories, or it is't in which case just publish a list of names/times and let the people who really care work it out.

I’d love this to change so women feel heard, given we’re a part of society

Sex not gender would be better for women

The volunteers generally aim for accurate times, but when that doesn't happen, for any one of a million plausible and valid reasons, no one cares. Because, as has been said so many times on this thread, the times don't count for anything.

To recap, the times can be inaccurate and meaningless, the categories are inaccurate and meaningless.

So stop publishing them anywhere.

@Brefugee - thanks, ha big up peas and parkrun.

There are still some legacy things around from when it was "Bushy Park Time Trial" - there used to be programmes to celebrate runners personal bests, they'd give out free trainers to people who improved their times and stuff like that. But in recent years there's been a big push towards it being a social, community event built around physical activity. Volunteering is as equally valid as running, and walking is as welcomed as sprinting around setting a new course record!

But also yes there are in essence hundreds of individual events run by small groups of volunteers, within the over-arching parkrun framework, and we work within the organisation of parkrun as it is. We welcome everyone taking part, registered or not! It wouldn't be for us as an individual parkrun team to start deciding whether or not to accept someone running as female and showing up in the results as female, that would be for parkrun HQ to decide if we got a complaint about it.

Times from official races are taken seriously. Times from parkruns are not.

Park Run times like Strava segment times may not be taken seriously as official races but they absolutely are important to those individual people. I see personal CRs being celebrated all the time.

parkrun would collapse without volunteers.

The volunteers help each week because they want to. They help because they believe in the ethos of parkrun. There's a huge amount of work that goes on behind the scenes by run directors (all unpaid) that wouldn't happen if there wasn't a sense of shared common purpose.

If anyone was actually against trans people being accepted at parkrun, they'd just stop volunteering. And then parkrun would fold. As it turns out, plenty of people are happy to continue to volunteer to ensure parkrun continues.

And parkrun decided a long time ago what it was. The saying goes, 'it's a run, not a race.'

Back when parkrun operated in France, results were actually posted alphabetically rather than by times. Given the current discussions on bringing back parkrun to France, who knows, HQ might well finally scrap the rankings in every country.

Parkrun can be a fun run, a chance to exercise outside, a social activity and a fast competitive run depending on what the participants want from it. The same person might have different approaches to it week on week.
Why are people fine with all the reasons apart from the competitive ones? I can and do enter actual races but parkrun has been a useful chance to do a (hopefully) fast 5k.
No one is compelled to race, or even run. That's the success of parkrun that it caters for all those people. I've seen a family doing it as a group dog walk - they could just as easily do a 5k dog walk outside of parkrun as I could run a fast 5k, but the point is its accessible for both sets of people to partake in the way they want.
I think if they stopped publishing results it would be less appealing for some.

@Chersfrozenface Parkrun is "free, weekly, timed" - that's one of the taglines. It is a free weekly 5km run that is timed. If you want to organise a free weekly UNTIMED 5km run that is a different thing! Feel free to start one.

We welcome everyone taking part, registered or not! It wouldn't be for us as an individual parkrun team to start deciding whether or not to accept someone running as female and showing up in the results as female, that would be for parkrun HQ to decide if we got a complaint about it.

And that's fine, women (and men who support them) who think it is unfair will continue to put pressure on Parkrun HQ however they feel is appropriate. This issue is going to come up all the time in every area of life where it's relevant what sex someone is.