Work and teenagers

[JollySmartie]

I didn't want to derail another thread, but I'm wondering about both parents working full time when their kids reach 12+.
On one hand we read threads asking how at what age can kids be safely left at home, and on another I've just read about a mother being jumped on for not 'just leaving her kids to get on with it' so she can work full time. Kids aged 12-15.

In my experience young teens can get into all sorts of trouble if there isn't a sensible adult around, and so I want to ask what other MNers do with them in the holidays.

It's easier when they are young enough to go to a child care setting. How old are they when this stops? I did a lot of juggling when mine were this age (single mum at the time and with a very unhelpful ex so mostly down to me)

I guess I am asking if I am unreasonable to think it's a lot to ask of teenagers to be totally responsible for themselves and possibly tween-age siblings whilst their parents are working full time.

And what do/did other parents do really. I'm curious but also a bit shocked, especially when youngsters do get into a pickle, and people are all outraged and saying 'where were their parents?!)

I'm a lone parent and still work part time. Youngest is year 9. Huge amount of issues. I have to hide knives and paracetamol in the car when I'm at work.
I hope she's well enough for me to increase to 4 days a week once she leaves school. But her wellbeing is my priority for now.

It's worth noting that full time jobs come in shapes and sizes.
WFH has already been mentioned as a way to work f/t but be "about" during the day so your teen is not on your own.
DH and I used to work flexible hours so one of us started early and the other finished late, so that the time that teens were on their own was reduced (although by the time they hit mid teens they were in bed until lunch time during holidays). We also took opposite annual leave (including some half days) sporadically across holidays so there was never solid blocks of days when the teens were on their own.

We also both work locally - so can be home in 10-15 minutes including coming home for lunch, which is a different situation to being a long commute away.
And finally, both our employers have had to become way more flexible in terms of working patterns since Covid, which means things like 2 or 3 hours off in the middle of the day and working late to make up the time has become pretty much a given - again very helpful with generally "being about" for teens.

Obviously other jobs are more rigid in various conditions.

There's also work full time - which can mean 9-5 on the dot. Wfh. So actually by the time teens are back from school, there's only an hour unsupervised until parents are there for chat and input. And given that teenagers go to bed about 10. So five hours of support every evening.

Or work full time.can be 16 hour.days, lots.of foreign travel, long commute. So basically don't see anyone else living in the house on a week to week basis. Not much time for teenager support

@karmakameleon

No, I don't think I am

It's there again in your post.

You wouldn't be comfortable leaving your teen. Why not? If there's nothing wrong with it?

As a PP stated, you can both work full time but IMO the meaning of FT is extremely variable. I have a challenging, intellectually stimulating job in data/privacy (although I'm sure boring to many) but it does lend itself to WFH. However, my DH's full-time job is all the extras, all the exciting, fun evening drinks and dinners/events, evening skiing for the weekend with clients and as an Architect quite a few overnight site visits all over UK sometimes Europe, there is no way we can both do those kind of full time jobs as the DC would never see us. That said, now they are older, I've asserted the need for more balance so that I can change jobs and work in a company with more opportunities. DD has viral asthma(worse in the winter) so it has made me anxious about being far away from her and DS, it has been my choice to have the hybrid job that isn't especially demanding of my time or my presence in an office 5 days/evenings a week.

My point exactly from previous post. You're inferring something from my posts that isn't there. I've attempted to debate reasonably and respectfully about all of it and I don't think you are doing the same.

Thank you @karmakameleon

I don't think teenagers having someone around the whole time is actually beneficial - when do they learn resilience? How to occupy themselves? How to manage their own time?

My parents both worked full time and I actually really enjoyed time alone in the house. I did so some things my parents would not have approved of - they were very anti pre marital sex and I did do that while they were at work.. but it was with a lovely turned out to be gay long term boyfriend, I was 17 and I don't regret it at all.

My kids are still young but we currently manage by taking some leave separately to only use holiday club for 3 weeks a year. So when they are teens, we will probably get them to do some days on their own at home/meeting up with friends as they prefer, perhaps a week staying with family and maybe a week doing a camp or something depending on what they're into. I don't foresee that being traumatic for them.

If you can afford to be a SAHM to teenagers and your DH is happy with that, it's none of my business but I don't think it is necessary for your average NT teen and I don't even know that I agree it's beneficial

I'm lucky in that I work very close to home and I was able to organise my working hours around not being too late home after they got in from school. Worst case scenario is that I get in 45 mins after them which is pretty good compared to the majority of working parents and that is only for 1-2 days a week.

@JollySmartie

I havent said anything disrespectful or not been reasonable.

I just disagree with you and your interpretation of how you are coming across.

It's a shame you can't cope with that without attempting to tone police or shut down.

😂 Even fathers! Surely men are tougher than that. I can’t believe these soft caring parents exist. Maybe they will raise soft caring children. What a disaster for society.

Oh and another thing that I think can actually be a good thing for teens about their parents working is being forced to take a bit more responsibility.

My mum used to leave me with a list of chores to do after school - nothing extreme, just "take the washing in" or "empty the dishwasher". Obviously I hated it at the time but I was definitely a lot more capable than my friends with SAHMs. I remember having a friend over once after school who was astonished when I uploaded the dishwasher and cooked us both dinner - I was 17, perfectly normal for me but she had a SAHM and had never had to do anything for herself.

Of course SAHMs can instill independence as well but Ithink sometimes if you stay at home or very part time when your kids are teens you do more stuff for them almost subconsciously to justify it.

I've always worked full time. I teach, so technically have the holidays with them, but often inset days, half terms and Easter can be different, or I'm in work doing revision sessions, so they end up alone a lot.

We tend to get home around 6, so dc are on their own until then every night too. Does make me feel guilty when I think I about the time and thought I spend on other people's kids in comparison to my own.

It's interesting and i agree with the posters saying teenagers have more emotional needs that only parents can really meet. I've always worked full time since mine were babies so it was full time nursery, then wraparound care and holiday club in the primary years. Secondary and we had exactly these concerns but it would have been bonkers to drop down to full time because kids were older when we'd managed all that time! My son's school had a homework club until 6pm (there was a fee) so for the first year he went to that. By the time he got home one if us was usually back or soon after. Holidays were more of a pain. I did manage to find a an activity club at a private school which took kids up to 14. He went there a few times but was the oldest kid there by years and begged not to have to go again. After that he was mainly on his own but one of us could wfh one day a week each (this was pre covid) and I took odd days of leave so we could go on some outings. We got him a bus pass and most days he'd go out somewhere- he did karate, gymnastics and diving in those days and the clubs often ran a few sessions in the hols. Some days he'd go to kids am at the cinema. Sometimes we'd send him on errands into town. By the time he was 12-13 we just left him to his own devices as he preferred that by then. Youngest is still at primary but since covid one or both of us is wfh each day so it won't be much of a concern.

It's very interesting to read how other parents make it work. I agree that full time jobs can vary hugely. As do teens of course! Thank you all for your insights ☺

Again, you seem to be reading something into this that isn’t there. I would feel uncomfortable leaving my currently 11 year old home alone from 7.30 to 6.30 every day for four weeks in the summer plus other school holidays. I don’t see that changing in two years time but even if it did, he’d then have a younger brother who would also want to be at home so that’s another consideration. I’d have less of an issue during term time as he’d only be home an hour or so earlier than us and his brother would be in after school club. That’s no comment on how you parent your children or what others might choose to do.

@karmakameleon

I disagree that saying you personally wouldn't be comfortable with a parenting choice automatically means it's not a judgement on others

There's loads I personally wouldn't do and I absolutely would judge those who would

I also think that's OK.

And don't take personal offence at what others judge

I disagree that saying you personally wouldn't be comfortable with a parenting choice automatically means it's not a judgement on others

Normally I’d never be the grammar police but there’s so many negatives in that sentence that I have absolutely no idea what you mean. But yes, there is plenty of poor parenting that absolutely should be judged but leaving your teenager at home so you can work isn’t that. But neither is staying at home or working part time so you can be around for them.

@karmakameleon

Oh dear

That is disappointing.

That sounds really tough @megletthesecond 💐

@karmakameleon I've read some of that link you shared. Thank you. What stood out to me was how since covid, there are more families with both parents working than previously. With having to home school kids etc, as well as the rise of wfh, it appears that the flexibility has increased working capacity alongside having children.

Depends on the teenagers. Ours are sensible. At 13-14 they’d have been mortified if I didn’t trust them to be at home on their own at times.

Alot of it seems down to luck. How flexible is your job? How helpful is your other half? How easy is it for your kids to travel around your home town independently? Do you have family around to help? In my case, the answers to all those questions are in the negative, so I have recently made the decision to go freelance, which is taking a while to get off the ground. Until 2 years ago, I had a job that had become flexible due to covid, which worked perfectly, but then we moved far away and I've since struggled to find work that fits around the needs of my teenagers, so my career is on the back burner again (wouldn't occur to DH to put his on the back burner of course!). We've moved to a place that's difficult to get around if you don't drive so the kids need lifts regularly. I'm not one of those parents that's happy to leave them to it because a lot can go wrong at this age. Where we used to live, a friend literally left her 11yo daughter to it as soon as she started secondary school. That girl would get up at 6am to make her lunch and breakfast before leaving the house at 7am and walking to the bus stop, in the dark on winter mornings! Sometimes, she would sleep in so would skip breakfast and grab something unhealthy for lunch. I'm sorry but I couldn't do that to my kids. I would much rather go without for now and be there for them until they can be safely independent.

When DD was a toddler, a friend's 12 year old wasn't happy being on her own all day while mum was at work. So a few times she came and looked after/played with DD while I got on with chores/wfh. Win all round.