Work and teenagers

[JollySmartie]

I didn't want to derail another thread, but I'm wondering about both parents working full time when their kids reach 12+.
On one hand we read threads asking how at what age can kids be safely left at home, and on another I've just read about a mother being jumped on for not 'just leaving her kids to get on with it' so she can work full time. Kids aged 12-15.

In my experience young teens can get into all sorts of trouble if there isn't a sensible adult around, and so I want to ask what other MNers do with them in the holidays.

It's easier when they are young enough to go to a child care setting. How old are they when this stops? I did a lot of juggling when mine were this age (single mum at the time and with a very unhelpful ex so mostly down to me)

I guess I am asking if I am unreasonable to think it's a lot to ask of teenagers to be totally responsible for themselves and possibly tween-age siblings whilst their parents are working full time.

And what do/did other parents do really. I'm curious but also a bit shocked, especially when youngsters do get into a pickle, and people are all outraged and saying 'where were their parents?!)

That's true, but many kids of that age can nonetheless be trusted to be alone for an hour or two at the end of the day until you get home from work. If they can't be left alone, even for a couple of hours, without getting into mischief, then that's a problem...

It depends what full time is, though. I was able to finish work at 4pm, and my DC took a long and slow school bus, so we arrived home at about the same time. DHs commute meant he wasn't home until 7pm. We couldn't have both done that with teens. Now DH works from hime, it would be perfectly doable for me to work later. I still chose not to, because I find myself providing a taxi service to enable my DD to live her best teen life.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

But then if you leave your 15 year old alone all day they could be shagging anyone. Or doing drugs.

True, but the answer here surely isn't to chaperone a 15 yo at all times to ensure they do this. Some of you are going to end up with very under-developed your adult children if they've been hovered over by a helicopter parent well into their teens!

I don't think they are being judged on this thread @ToK1 I think equally in life parents of teens are judged if they don't work.
It's really the logistics of having teens and what to do with them when you have a career. There's way more school hols than there is parental leave, and not all of us can afford the sort of activities that some teens would enjoy.

My friend thought her 15 year old was home all day on his own. It turns out that a lot of his mates were also at the house all day too! Things got damaged and went missing!

@JollySmartie

You certainly come across as being judgemental.

Suggesting that women shouldn't care about money and instead should prioritise their children's well being

(Ignoring the obvious flaws in that judgement)

@LynetteScavo I was similar to you. I had two part time jobs and was able to pop home to check all was well, and did some tutoring when I could. Increased hours when my teenagers were occupied, and hoped for the best the rest of the time. A great big juggling act, and we came out unscathed.
I imagine a family with two parents with big careers would have a different experience to mine and yours as single mums - but they'd have spent a lot of money on activities.
There will be other teens left to their own devices for 14 hours a day though, and undoubtedly some would handle it better than others

I don't believe that it is at all what I said, or even implied, but happy to agree to disagree. I think the comment you refer to is where i said a poster had been jumped on for not immediately going out to work full time when she clearly didn't want to, and I said that being more frugal and spending more time at home is a valid option for some families

I took a pay cut to work TTO so I'm around in the holidays. We can afford this as DH is on a good wage but obviously not an option for everyone. Both my parents worked FT and decided to move to the countryside (30 minute drive to nearest town and no decent public transport) when I was in my first year of secondary school so I remember hating the school holidays as I was bored at home alone much of the time.

I don’t feel it’s a lot to ask of the teens but then I was raised by a single mother so it was just normal to us. For the record neither me or my siblings got into any kind of trouble or took drugs etc. I did do a bit of under age drinking (along with my friends who had parents who didn’t work or worked part-time) but nothing major. There is a lot of helicopter parenting nowadays and I find it a bit sad how incapable many teens are rendered by their parents.

me and my sisters had a lot of strong morals instilled in us and were all ambitious (we studied law, medicine and accountancy respectively ) and I feel that’s what guided us away from a lot of things rather than parents at home all the time.

That said it’s a personal choice and if someone wants to work part time and cut down on luxuries as long as it works for them and their family that’s the main thing. It is a bit difficult if they don’t see eye to eye on their partner with that thought. One of the many things to be discussed before having children I guess that people gloss over!

The only thing that irks me a bit is a friend of mine constantly complaining she’s skint when both she and her partner work part-time despite their kids all being over 12. They get a lot of in-work benefits though and I do wonder if it makes sense for some people to work full-time when they could be nicely subsided while working less lol

@JollySmartie

Your op asks if it's irresponsible to leave teens at home while you work.

You've said it's very sad and a shame that people have to work

You agreed with the post implying neglect.

I think your judgement is clear.

I mean, it's fair enough. We all judge stuff

How much time do people spend on these that interferes with full time work? I feel like I can perfectly adequately parent my dc and maintain my career.

Since when did working full-time mean entirely abandoning all parenting responsibilities? I ferry my dc about, support with schoolwork (though tbh this mainly means nagging then to do it, not doing it with them), talk about problems at school and so on, just in the evenings or at weekends.

We've always worked full time. We split the holidays between us and I used to save my flexi leave so I could have 3 weeks off in The summer holidays.

Our old childminder used to be happy to take him for a week in the summer (her DS is a similar age) and my parents and DHs parents would also help out. Agree it's a difficult juggling act!

@Stompythedinosaur

It's clear from lots of these threads that women who don't work or don't work full time are completely clueless about parenting while working.

They seem to think working full time is equivalent to working 24/7 and abandoning children completely

@

@ToK1 it certainly wasn't my intention to judge and perhaps my initial post was poorly worded. It'll teach me to TAAT but the shock i referred to was from the posters elsewhere saying 'just' get a full time job and 'just' let the teenagers get on with it.
I do think it's a lot for many young teenagers to be left to their own devices for a full day, and so that is why I put the question regarding what other posters do with their teenagers during the holidays. I imagine as a full time working parent you have these things covered.
There have been a range of replies which I have found interesting, and I think they are all valid.
I have agreed with eg @ArseInTheCoOpWindow because these are all things that can happen when they are unsupervised. As pointed out, trouble can arise whether or not a parent is around.
I also agree that children need to learn to be independent and resilient, and that many issues can be dealt with out of working hours.
I'd say most posters have explained with some clarity how they juggle the responsibilities in their lives.
I completely agree that a career is very important to a lot of people, and I am very happy that I continued my own, and that I can now continue with the juggling that having young dependents involved.
If you still want to infer that my posts are judgemental, I can live with that, but in reference to it's a shame that parents have work, i feel you took it out of context. I meant it's a shame there is so much financial pressure on young families, and that the choice is not available to many. I also maintain my belief that if families choose to go simpler and be frugal, that is an equally decision.

without juggling and equally valid
I also should proofread better before I hit post!

I was left to my own devices in the school holidays from 12.

My parents both worked full-time and there weren't any holiday clubs or activities available for teenagers - my friends were generally all in the same position and this was only 20-ish years ago.

Some teens have jobs themselves, some teenagers are sensible and 'normal' and some just get on with things

Maybe parents do what they do with the teens they have rather than this mythical made up 'some teenagers...'

If teenagers are actually out causing trouble then parents need to deal with that

You dont mean parents though.

You mean mums.

Because its not men who 'choose to go simpler and be 'frugal''

Its women.

So is it really a choice?

Ok, you have a point. This whole thread has helped me crystallise my thinking, so thank you.
I think perhaps it's society, and how we have evolved socially, with various expectations, that is the problem.
However, we're dealing with the here and now, and families doing what works best for them. And I still think we need to make our own choices within our own families without people who make different choices, with good reasons of their own, feeling that there is criticism of them.
I don't know what the answer is to that. I enjoy reading and posting on MN because it gives other people's views and opinions, but it lacks the nuance (and body language) of face to face interactions. I suspect if we met in real life we'd find more to agree about than when online.

Yes mine were left home alone in holidays from 11, we both needed to work, like many families. They were both mature and didn’t set the home on fire

You appear to be annoyed that people were criticising the mum for not working full time but in doing so are implying that there is something wrong with working full time

My son was in cubs and then scouts. In the summer holidays there would be one week scout camp, 2 separate weeks family holiday. He would also do at least one week sports activity. A couple of years he did NCS.
So he may have had the odd week hanging around with his mates but not prolonged periods of time. There is still plenty of stuff around for teenagers but it's not necessarily cheap.
If there were weeks without a camp/organised activity, I'd make sure he arranged something specific with his makes such as the cinema or the water park at least one day in the week.

Honestly, I think you are reading something into the OP that isn’t there. I say this as someone who works full time, always have done and has three primary age children. As the eldest is about to his secondary school and no longer wants to go to full time holiday camps, I do wonder how we will manage this. We can take it in turns to work from home so will probably do that so we’re around a bit more for the teenage years, but I do note that most people upthread have talked about flexible working to cover this age group in some way. I think if we were both still working full days in the offices with no flexibility, we’d have to reconsider as if certainly feel uncomfortable leaving a 13 year old home alone for 10-11 hours a day.