To not understand why English businesses won't accept Northern Irish banknotes

[bunsaremybesties]

I am from Northern Ireland, legally a part of the UK that uses sterling. I am currently on holiday in England. In a shop yesterday there were signs displayed saying "we cannot accept Scottish or Irish notes".

My problems with this are:
(a) the use of the phrase Irish notes - personally I don't really have a strong preference for calling myself either British or Irish, but to my ears, "Irish notes", due to the current real-life currencies used on the island of Ireland, would be euro notes, used in the Republic of Ireland. So of course a shop in England would not accept these, just as it would not accept American notes or Mexican notes. I would have thought Northern Irish notes would have been a more accurate description, as Northern Ireland uses the same currency as England.

(b) what is the reasoning for not accepting "Irish"/Northern Irish banknotes, when they're exactly the same currency as those used in England, Wales and Scotland? While in Northern Ireland we do print our own banknotes, we also regularly use and accept banknotes issued in other regions of the UK. I work in a shop and within any hour block at work, I deal with any number of notes from customers that were issued by the Bank of England, Clydesdale Bank, Bank of Scotland etc. The notes have exactly the same value as those issued by Northern Irish banks like Ulster Bank or Danske Bank, so why on earth wouldn't we accept them? It's not even a consideration in our minds to refuse them. Why is it different in England?

(c) if the justification is that Northern Irish notes are not "legal tender" in England, well then everyone who lives in Northern Ireland is in trouble because in Scotland and Northern Ireland no notes, not even ones issued in those countries, are "legal tender". They are, however, legal currency and so are perfectly acceptable to be used for trade.

Can anyone explain please?

If they don't realise that NI is part of the UK they are a moron, yes.

Evidence 😆

https://www.fca.org.uk/news/press-releases/natwest-fined-264.8million-anti-money-laundering-failures

They were fined for their part in a money laundering process that included a lot of Scottish notes.

FWIW RBS no longer owns Natwest. In attempt to clean up their image, the group that owns the RBS brand is now called Natwest.

I didn't call the Scottish system weird because I didn't know they also did that because I haven't been there since I was about 13, 30 years ago. But now you have kindly enlightened me here goes: IT IS ALSO WEIRD.

I know they are legal currency. I didn't say they weren't. I just said that I sympathise with the people trying to use them AND the people who don't want to risk accepting them.

It's absolutely a fraud issue as their staff do not recognise them and their customers will not accept them. They don't have to accept them and they make a risk based decision not to. It's not ignorance, it's trying to run a business that are battered by high costs, insurance claims and extensive regulatory requirements and they can not afford to receive fraudulent notes. If you don't agree or like it, shop somewhere else.

Since when is calling someone arrogante or ignorant racism ? Specially when it’s proved this tread it’s the case ?

I'm not confused or fixated, I know the difference.
I will now make the same point for about the 100th time - a business is entitled to accept whatever they want in terms of payment. This is the same for business in NI and Scotland. They obviously feel like they are not missing out on business by not accepting these notes. The reasons have been given multiple times - they are hard for people to recognise as they are issued by multiple banks and they have a higher level of counterfeiting.
Honestly some people just have such a chip on their shoulder and hate the English so much they will use any excuse to have a go.
So some of you have met some rude and ignorant English people who aren't aware of the ins and outs of currencies in a place they have probably never visited, they don't represent the whole country. I've met some rude and ignorant Scottish and Northern Irish people, I don't assume the whole country is the same!

You didn't call someone arrogant and ignorant, you just said English arrogance and ignorance - an entire nation/people.

That is racist.

And its not proven in any event as I live in England and Scottish notes are common and accepted everywhere.

Megamanic, not the point you were making but is it really the case that English people are unlikely to have been to Scotland or NI? I think that's very sad if so. I had visited England, Scotland, NI, Wales and the Isle of Man before I turned 18.

Sorry, but you ARE fixated on the term legal tender.

If you actually knew the difference between legal tender and legal currency, you would not have stupidly stated, "Should they also be expected to take Euro's and USD or is that English arrogance too"!

Why would ANY shop in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland accept US Dollars or the Euro banknotes as payment?!,

They're simply NOT legal currency, i.e., you cannot legally spend foreign currency in ANY part of the UK which is why they must be exchanged at the daily rate!

Shops in England absolutely DO accept Northern Irish and Scottish banknotes. I've not had a problem since 1995, personally.

For those sitting at the back - you - legal tender is a completely different thing to legal currency!

The difference in numbers in how easily UK banknotes are forged is essentially negligible as well. It is not widespread.

Why is it 'sad' not to have been to Northern Ireland or the Isle of Man?

Have you been to everywhere in Europe?

But it's all authorised by the independent Bank Of England itself. 🤔

What is weird is that the UK doesn't have a formalised set of SINGLE banknotes the way other independent unitary sovereign states do.

We have a handful of variations and that's before including the Isle of Man and Channel Islands in the mix! Yet we are an independent unitary sovereign state.

Because they're:

1. part of the same country, i.e. United Kingdom. Not Isle of Man as that's a British self-governing territory.

2. not far away at all and much closer as well as cheaper to visit than European mainland is.

But I would say most people living in GB have been to Northern Ireland as well as the Republic of Ireland. And vice-versa.

It is much more likely than most UK citizens have been to mainland Europe.

I suppose to me it suggests quite an insular approach, that you haven't made the (relatively small, compared to visiting everywhere in Europe) effort to go to see the other parts of the country you actually live in.

I am a Londoner, my grandparents immigrated to the UK from various parts of Eastern Europe, and I'm a mix of Sephardi, Ashkenazi and Mizrahi Jewish. I feel far more connected to France, Spain, Italy, Greece, Cyprus, Turkey, Poland, Russia, etc. (all of which I have genetic connections to) than I do to Northern Ireland (where as far as I know none of my relatives past or present have ever set foot). Or indeed to Northumberland, Cheshire, Inverness, or the Hebrides.

I'm just not into nationalistic ideas of prioritising visiting all parts of "the country that you actually live in" as opposed to exploring the great big wide world. Not into nationalism at all, of any type. I find it quite unpleasant. This thread is a brilliant demonstration of everything that's wrong with nationalism. I don't identify with 'England' as a concept any more than I do with Scotland or Wales.

I do find it quite funny the idea of thinking someone is 'insular' for not having been to the Isle of Man Makes me think of the brilliant Fast Show sketch.

Feeling very 'insular' for having missed out on this:

Because it’s part of where you live and yes I’ve been on most of Europe and all of the U.K. . People who travel seem to have a much open mind to their neighbours and also less arrogance and ignorance

Why is Huddersfield or St Helens or Aberdeen or Rhyl or Belfast more 'part of where I live' than Paris? It's a lot quicker for me to get to Paris, and I have family there.

Unless you are a nationalist, this idea doesn't really make any sense.

Because every government in Europe recognises that Huddersfield or St Helens or Aberdeen or Rhyl or Belfast are very much part of the unitary sovereign state known as the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

And they recognise that Paris is part of France, not the UK.

You live wholly within British borders and your visits to the European mainland countries are recognised as external ones.

There is no such country as Europe and the EU isn't a country.

The concept of countries, defined territories and borders still holds today.....

I’m far from a nationalist , just think it’s basic knowledge to know the currencies used where you live . You consider myself more a European citizen that will ver be a U.K. one , this doesn’t mean I fail to understand basics the same ways I would know what country uses a different currency

Of course I understand that it's part of the country I live in politically. But that doesn't mean it's any more close or relevant to me culturally.

The poster to whom I was responding said it was 'sad' if people hadn't visited all the parts of the UK. I'm asking why that would be more 'sad' than not having visited other parts of Europe.

I understand what currencies are used in different countries.

I was disagreeing with the idea that there is some inherent reason that I (or anyone) should feel more emotionally connected to distant parts of the UK than we do to (much closer) parts of Europe, or that there is anything 'sad' about not prioritising holidays and travel in the UK instrad of other countries.

That is entirely separate to not wanting to accept notes that you haven't the slightest chance of knowing whether they are legitimate or not.

I have seen precisely one Scots note in 50 years - when I was 15 and working on a supermarket checkout in outer London. I know where Scotland and Northern Ireland are and their legal jurisdiction. I have, however, never personally seen a note issued by a NI bank - nor have I seen an English £50 since 2003; I wouldn't accept those in payment for something, either.

I'm still not stupid enough to risk missing counterfeit notes for fear I'd piss off somebody who can't comprehend the impact of getting it wrong could have on somebody.

It's true that the majority of people living in the UK have ancestry covering three or four parts of the UK itself.

These bonds go beyond the political and into the cultural, social and historical aspect of the People themselves. This is even extended to the Republic of Ireland citizens who are afforded a special status in the UK that does NOT and will never extend to mainland European countries or citizens.

The people of the UK have their closest relationships within the British Isles. Not mainland Europe. By this perspective, it IS sad if people within the British Isles haven't visited each other.

But most have and this has been the case for more than 1,500 years now. Huddersfield or St Helens or Aberdeen or Rhyl or Belfast are more similar to each other than they are to Paris, Berlin, Madrid or Rome.

The UK has long held Europe at arms length. We can see this in history.

You might be a negligible minority.

If the United Kingdom actually meant anything then yes it would be sad not to have made an effort at some point in your life to visit the different parts of it. Like making no attempt to visit family members.
But I guess it doesn't mean anything, so nothing standing in the way of dissolving it then!

You're under the mistaken impression that the bonds of a people is felt by or based upon geographical closeness to a territory or people.

It is not.

It's based largely on social similarities, cultural similarities and the bonds of blood aka ancestry.

Where these are strongest is where a country largely forms itself around. Not the other way round.

Hence the world is divided into continental regions and subdivided into countries which are separate from each other.

It's hardly unreasonable to expect nationals of a country to identify with ALL of the national territory. Even if it's remote.

Portuguese see Madiera as theirs and the Spanish see the Canary Islands as part of Spain.

For example.

This is why people not unreasonably expect Scottish and Northern Irish notes to be accepted in England.

This is not a mystery.