Page 13 | Why aren't parents correcting their DC?

Meili04 · 2023-05-18T11:46:24+00:00

I just saw the DM article about an 11 year old boy being tasered for brandishing a knife over a tantrum in burger king. The mum said they were too harsh. I've seen this in my DDs school their child is a little angel and can do no wrong. If my child is mean to another child I correct the behaviour , if they rude I do the same. My DC is a human being with faults and isn't perfect 100 percent of the time, no person is. Why can some parents see no fault in their child? Our responsibility as parents is to bring up DC to be functioning adults who thrive. Treating DC as mini deities does them no favours. I think parenting is becoming too gentle. AIBU?

jannier · 19/05/2023 09:44

notwhatsoever · 18/05/2023 19:55

This.

The made up bollocks people are inventing to justify the police, and their own seeming personal hatred of this child, is disturbing, but also shows how weak their case actually is.

We have the child threatening the police and brandishing a knife, when the only evidence we have is of a child who sounds frightened and distressed trying to back away from five adult men approaching him, one of whom is aiming a gun at him as he advances.

We have spurious comparisons to full grown attacks attacking other full grown adults with cutlery knives, neatly avoiding the fact that this is an eleven year old child, who, even if he could get himself in a position to attack a fully trained police officer backed up by four colleagues (unlikely) does not have an adults strength to attack with.

We have attacks on the Mother when we know nothing about her. I know enough to know even the best parents can have children who behave like this, when their children have serious problems of trauma or disability or divergence. It really isn’t always due to ‘lax’ parenting. And some posters on this thread but be better to think ‘ there but for the grace of God go I’.

We have statements he’ll go off to stab others where all we can see is a frightened child seeking to protect himself from a man with a gun, he’s trying to get away.

We have labels like ‘child thug’ when all we can see is a frightened child trying to get away from a man with a gun. though if you want to turn this child into a thug, this episode was a good way to go about it. Contrary to what posters here seem to think, brutalizing people, brutalizing children doesn’t de-brutalize them. It does the opposite.

we have posters ignoring the fact tasers can be deadly, even on adults.

And as I said before, if a grown adult woman can be applauded on here for refusing to get out of her car when police asked her too as the police are too dangerous, then it follows a 11 year old being advanced upon by a police officer pointing a gun at him can reasonably be expected to think it’s not safe for him to put his only defense down when the police tell him too. If we think police are too scary for women to obey, police with pointing guns at them are certainly too scary for 11 year old children.

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But why was he carrying a knife of any sort....burger king don't have knives so for some reason this child is in a place where he carries a knife ....all be it this time a butter knife but one in the eye wouldn't be good. Does he feel unsafe does he use it to intimidate? We do know that knife carrying escalates if he's in the mind set its a cool thing to do why is that? If his parents can't talk him down why?

Annarabbit · 19/05/2023 09:47

nobody190 · 18/05/2023 19:12

If he didn't have a knife whether a bread knife or not he wouldn't of got tasered! If my child was tasered and it was because they were waving a knife around I'd want to know why the fuck they thought it was ok to do that! Don't do and you don't get tasered! Simple really!

Only simple if you have zero understanding of how disabilities can have profound consequences for social understanding and behaviour.

Sometimes people are overwhelmed by huge and overwhelming physiological urges to respond in particular ways. Sometimes people lack the capacity to understand, be aware of, or control their responses, Sometimes people do not understand a social situation or how it might be perceived by other people. Sometimes people lack the capacity to forsee or understand social consequences.

Having profound differences in developmental capacity and social understanding is not at all the same as people without disabilities making poor choices.

Some of the ignorance about disabilities is absolutely terrifying on this thread. It is as though people cannot grasp the concept that disabled means differently abled and therefore some people lack the capacity to behave normally/safely. Brutalising them doesn't change their capacity to behave as though they didn't have the disability.

Annarabbit · 19/05/2023 09:52

TakeInIroning · 19/05/2023 09:26

I a child is not old enough to be legally responsible-as in this case-then the person legally responsible-his mother in this case-should be in the dock on his behalf.

It seems we have a class of people-like this little fucker-who don't have to face legal responsibility. That can't be allowed. Someone has to be responsible and clearly that should be the parent.

A few more of these useless fuckers in the dock, having to take responsibility for the crimes of their useless off spring-is the way to go,

If people are found to lack capacity, the law is different. For good reasons.

TakeInIroning · 19/05/2023 10:08

If a child can't take legal responsibility then the person with legal responsibility should be in the dock.

Someone pays and that is right and proper. No-one gets a free pass, as these children and their parents do.

If this useless mother was given a fine for the cost of bringing out the police to deal with the little shit and then in the dock charged with threatening behaviour on her son's behalf-it would maybe stop some of these feral little fuckers, as their neglectful parents might think they have to actually do something.

They won't do it for shame-this example is parading her compo face (!) so let them do it under threat.

Crumpleton · 19/05/2023 16:34

TakeInIroning · 19/05/2023 09:26

I a child is not old enough to be legally responsible-as in this case-then the person legally responsible-his mother in this case-should be in the dock on his behalf.

It seems we have a class of people-like this little fucker-who don't have to face legal responsibility. That can't be allowed. Someone has to be responsible and clearly that should be the parent.

A few more of these useless fuckers in the dock, having to take responsibility for the crimes of their useless off spring-is the way to go,

The legal age now in England and Wales is 10..
But you'll always get people shouting out that it isn't the DC fault, it's the upbringing, blah blah.
In turn the parent will be supported by those in the "you can't blame the parents if their DC are out on their own and misbehaving"

Unfortunately those that are doing so need to realise that they are part of the future they're creating for their own DC/DGC to grow up in and with the age of criminals becoming younger justifying such behaviour will only make it worse.

Deadringer · 19/05/2023 16:44

I am on the fence with this one. Yes absolutely many people are far too soft with their dc and if I was this boy's mum I would be too ashamed of his behaviour to complain publicly about it. But equally I can't really understand how that number of grown men, who are trained to deal with situations like this, couldn't quite easily talk down or even forcibly disarm an 11 year old boy with a butter knife. No one comes out of this smelling of roses imo.

Nicknacky · 19/05/2023 16:54

Deadringer · 19/05/2023 16:44

I am on the fence with this one. Yes absolutely many people are far too soft with their dc and if I was this boy's mum I would be too ashamed of his behaviour to complain publicly about it. But equally I can't really understand how that number of grown men, who are trained to deal with situations like this, couldn't quite easily talk down or even forcibly disarm an 11 year old boy with a butter knife. No one comes out of this smelling of roses imo.

Putting aside that a butter knife can cause harm, you only have the mums word that it was.

MakesMeFeelSad · 19/05/2023 17:20

It may have been a butter knife this time (or not!) But I child that age carrying any sort of knife is likely to continue and unlikely to stick to just a butter knife as he gets older

BodegaSushi · 19/05/2023 17:32

EilonwyWithRedGoldHair · 18/05/2023 23:20

My child has broken my finger, bitten me so often that at one point my right arm was more bruise than not, kicked me in the head. My husband and I have had to hold him down to get his shoes off him because it's bad enough being kicked when he he has bare feet, and we've had to get a knife off him, as well as random objects he was going to use as weapons. We've had no training in handling this.

I have never, ever, punched him in the face.

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That’s your child though. Most people wouldn’t put up with that behaviour from a random person

RafaistheKingofClay · 19/05/2023 17:55

Deadringer · 19/05/2023 16:44

I am on the fence with this one. Yes absolutely many people are far too soft with their dc and if I was this boy's mum I would be too ashamed of his behaviour to complain publicly about it. But equally I can't really understand how that number of grown men, who are trained to deal with situations like this, couldn't quite easily talk down or even forcibly disarm an 11 year old boy with a butter knife. No one comes out of this smelling of roses imo.

I wonder whether they are less trained in this than they used to be. Or perhaps should be. I wonder whether carrying a taser means you are more likely to give up on a de-escalation strategy or conflict resolution earlier and resort to the taser.

But surprised by the posters on this thread thinking this makes the child less likely to do this. I’d have thought there’s a reasonable chance that it would make him more likely to be aggressive towards police in the future.

Nicknacky · 19/05/2023 18:02

RafaistheKingofClay · 19/05/2023 17:55

I wonder whether they are less trained in this than they used to be. Or perhaps should be. I wonder whether carrying a taser means you are more likely to give up on a de-escalation strategy or conflict resolution earlier and resort to the taser.

But surprised by the posters on this thread thinking this makes the child less likely to do this. I’d have thought there’s a reasonable chance that it would make him more likely to be aggressive towards police in the future.

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Not less trained at all and the officer is very recently trained.

And again no, deescalation will always be the aim and taser the last resort. Contrary to popular belief, taser officers are not trigger happy and it is not used frequently.

Aaaaandbreathe · 19/05/2023 18:05

MakesMeFeelSad · 19/05/2023 17:20

It may have been a butter knife this time (or not!) But I child that age carrying any sort of knife is likely to continue and unlikely to stick to just a butter knife as he gets older

For me the issue is that 5 police officers against a small 11 year old (some 11 year olds are big, this one wasn't), couldn't even have tried to warn him that they would be doing this, count down to one without continuing to advance so he knew what was happening, had time to drop it once he knew the consequences and wasn't scare of the gun being pointed at him. Also understand that while his behaviour wasn't acceptable that he was the vulnerable one in the situation? Why would they not just stop cornering him and tell him he had to the count of 5? It would be more reasonable after that. Absolutely no one was at risk from being hurt from where he was standing.

That's not excusing the behaviour at all, it's trying to help so that the possibility of worse behaviour in the future doesn't happen. The way this has been dealt with will have had the opposite effect. He'll be frightened of or hate police from now on.

We should just lock him up for life now, or bring back hanging the way people are going. 11 is young enough, 11 with disabilities is even younger mentally. It's not about being soft and letting them run out of control, it's about finding a solution to the problem so he doesn't end up as the man running about with a machete.

At 11 he now knows lots of people hate him and would happily taser their own children too. But who cares, as long as he got his punishment. I'm sorry but there was no real risk here. Physically weaker, backing away and frightened from grown man with stab proof vests with his butter knife while they had a taser.

Handled dreadfully and has helped no one.

TakeInIroning · 19/05/2023 18:06

Deadringer · 19/05/2023 16:44

I am on the fence with this one. Yes absolutely many people are far too soft with their dc and if I was this boy's mum I would be too ashamed of his behaviour to complain publicly about it. But equally I can't really understand how that number of grown men, who are trained to deal with situations like this, couldn't quite easily talk down or even forcibly disarm an 11 year old boy with a butter knife. No one comes out of this smelling of roses imo.

The only proof we have that it was a butter knife is the evidence of his mother.

Now, she may be a fine upstanding citizen whose word is her bond but, on the other hand she might be lying. One has to use one's common sense as to whether or not one believes this woman.

I don't believe her because she has a vested interest in trying to minimize the actions of her child.

What is sad is how, Chinese Whispers style-this shit about about it being a butter knife has gained traction.

It could easily have been a steak knife and, it doesn't take Miss Marple or Inspector Cluedo to work out that-on the balance of probability-the knife this little shit waved about and refused to drop-was much more deadly than a butter knife.

If it was just a butter knife, why did she feel the need to call the police and tell them he was wielding a knife, as that is why the police responded with a team and a taser

Only a child would believe such a tale, unless of course it suited one's agenda to believe it.

TakeInIroning · 19/05/2023 18:09

@Aaaaandbreathe

If there was no real risk, why did his mother call the police.

I guess she wouldn't have done that if he was waving a tube of glitter around.

What do you think could be the explanation for that it, if as you say, it could have been easily handled? Would you call the police to deal with your child if his behaviour wasn't a danger to others? Of course not and nor would she!

MerlinBirds · 19/05/2023 18:09

Aaaaandbreathe · 19/05/2023 18:05

For me the issue is that 5 police officers against a small 11 year old (some 11 year olds are big, this one wasn't), couldn't even have tried to warn him that they would be doing this, count down to one without continuing to advance so he knew what was happening, had time to drop it once he knew the consequences and wasn't scare of the gun being pointed at him. Also understand that while his behaviour wasn't acceptable that he was the vulnerable one in the situation? Why would they not just stop cornering him and tell him he had to the count of 5? It would be more reasonable after that. Absolutely no one was at risk from being hurt from where he was standing.

That's not excusing the behaviour at all, it's trying to help so that the possibility of worse behaviour in the future doesn't happen. The way this has been dealt with will have had the opposite effect. He'll be frightened of or hate police from now on.

We should just lock him up for life now, or bring back hanging the way people are going. 11 is young enough, 11 with disabilities is even younger mentally. It's not about being soft and letting them run out of control, it's about finding a solution to the problem so he doesn't end up as the man running about with a machete.

At 11 he now knows lots of people hate him and would happily taser their own children too. But who cares, as long as he got his punishment. I'm sorry but there was no real risk here. Physically weaker, backing away and frightened from grown man with stab proof vests with his butter knife while they had a taser.

Handled dreadfully and has helped no one.

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You were there and witnessed all this then?

8counts · 19/05/2023 18:10

Nicknacky · 19/05/2023 18:02

Not less trained at all and the officer is very recently trained.

And again no, deescalation will always be the aim and taser the last resort. Contrary to popular belief, taser officers are not trigger happy and it is not used frequently.

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Sweeping generalisation there.

Just like cops in the US are trained and not trigger happy. eh?

Hardly beyond the realms of possibility. He just kept shouting 'put it down', even when the boy was being cheeky and shouting 'why should I?', he didn't say 'because if you don't I'm going to shoot you with this'.

Nicknacky · 19/05/2023 18:12

@Aaaaandbreathe Do you not think it’s better they follow their training rather than “now I’m going to count down from five, five, four, three, two and a half…..” They aren’t trying to tuck him into bed like a stroppy toddler.

And it’s a 1 minute video. The incident went on a lot longer than that.

8counts · 19/05/2023 18:13

MerlinBirds · 19/05/2023 18:09

You were there and witnessed all this then?

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No, I watched the video that was shared on the news like everyone else.

Well, apart from you I'm assuming.

Nicknacky · 19/05/2023 18:13

8counts · 19/05/2023 18:10

Sweeping generalisation there.

Just like cops in the US are trained and not trigger happy. eh?

Hardly beyond the realms of possibility. He just kept shouting 'put it down', even when the boy was being cheeky and shouting 'why should I?', he didn't say 'because if you don't I'm going to shoot you with this'.

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Sorry, are we taking about the USA or a Taser incident in Ayr?

And it’s a 1 minute video, the incident went on a lot longer than that.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 19/05/2023 18:14

The way this has been dealt with will have had the opposite effect. He'll be frightened of or hate police from now on.

Yes, this incident is what put an end to his previously positive and cooperative relationship with authority I'm sure .

Aaaaandbreathe · 19/05/2023 18:17

Nicknacky · 19/05/2023 18:12

@Aaaaandbreathe Do you not think it’s better they follow their training rather than “now I’m going to count down from five, five, four, three, two and a half…..” They aren’t trying to tuck him into bed like a stroppy toddler.

And it’s a 1 minute video. The incident went on a lot longer than that.

What I'm trying to say is I think that should be part of their training, They're dealing with a child who is mentally younger than others their age. Would it not be better if no one is physically at risk as they weren't to try that first? So just before tasering they tell him this is the last chance, stop moving towards him and give him a few seconds? After that I still believe they could have overpowered him, but I'd understand the tasering if they tried that.

Deadringer · 19/05/2023 18:18

Even if it was a proper knife, I would expect that number of police officers to be capable of disarming a child without resorting to tasering him. Anyway let's hope he has learned his lesson.

Nicknacky · 19/05/2023 18:18

Deadringer · 19/05/2023 18:18

Even if it was a proper knife, I would expect that number of police officers to be capable of disarming a child without resorting to tasering him. Anyway let's hope he has learned his lesson.

How, exactly?

MakesMeFeelSad · 19/05/2023 18:20

Well hopefully he'll also be too frightened to carry a knife in future as well. Can't feel sorry for him at all

As someone who's just turned 12 year old was attacked recently by a group of 11 and 12 year olds I'm just glad that little shit wasn't one of them and the little shits that did it weren't carrying 'butter' knifes

I'd have been quite happy if the police had tasered those kids if I'm honest , even though they were also fairly small 11 and 12 year olds

adriftinadenofvipers · 19/05/2023 18:27

notwhatsoever · 18/05/2023 19:27

I am appalled. And his thought thought was not to get a knife, it was to run away.

You can also see in the video quite clearly in that video that he was trying to get away from the police who he was frightened off. They were the ones cornering him, and pointing a gun at him. He was using that knife as the only defensive move he had and trying to get away.

I’ve explained quite clearly what I think the police should have done. They should have recognized he was a frightened and distressed child. They should not have got out a gun, they should have lowered themselves to his level and talked him down. That’s what he needed for the situation to be brought under control.

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Would you ever listen to yourself! He had armed himself with a knife - wtf kind of world do you live in that apparently accepts this sort of behaviour from an 11 year old??! He pulled out a knife. Why the hell did he have a knife on him in the first place?

Sure maybe the police should have bribed him with some sweeties or got a Burger King for him from another branch?!!