Dogs on leads, yay or nay

[Aibutousethisname]

Genuinely interested in people's opinions on this. Should dogs be on leads in public places?
Yes =yanbu
No= yabu

I looked it up...
https://www.met.police.uk/foi-ai/metropolitan-police/d/july-2022/dogs-seized-by-the-police-and-where-they-are-boardedkenneled/
Disclosure of the location of our kennelling provision for seized dogs is kept confidential for reasons of safety and security.
Section 31 of the Act which relates to law enforcement, and Section 38, which relates to health and safety, have therefore been applied to refuse disclosure in this case.

In considering whether or not the requested information should be released, I have considered the potential harm that could be caused to law enforcement and health and safety.

Disclosing the location of our kennelling provision would provide sufficient information for individuals with malicious intent to target the kennels. For example; owners could arrive at the kennels to demand the return of their dog(s), or could attempt to break into the premises in order to secure the return of their animal, before any court proceedings could be taken which would prejudice law enforcement. Any such activity, in turn, would endanger the safety of staff and other individuals using the premises, and the public at large if dangerous dogs were released back into the community as a result of any such action.

Our kennelling provision for seized dogs is kept confidential for reasons of safety and security; this is to ensure the safety and security of the staff and kennels, but also to ensure that seized animals are cared for in a secure, safe environment.

As detailed within the 'harm', the information you are seeking would be a valuable asset to individuals and/or organisations wishing to target our kennelling provision. Disclosure would place the MPS at a tactical disadvantage as if a location was made public, and targeted, officers would need to be deployed to respond to security issues, and any animals held at that site would need to be moved to alternative kennels causing unnecessary stress to animals, and extra expense to the public purse.

It cannot be in the public interest to disclose information which would undermine our ability to protect the public and bring offenders to justice, or which could result in additional expenditure in both resources, transportation and kennelling.

Due to the potential harm that could be caused to our operational effectiveness as outlined above; to ensure the safety of staff, and individuals attending kennels, and the public at large; and to ensure that animals are cared for in a safe and secure environment.

I consider that the benefit that would result from the information being disclosed does not outweigh the considerations favouring non-disclosure. This decision is based on the understanding that the public interest is not what interests the public, but what would be of greater good to the community as a whole

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/owner-xl-bully-ignored-neighbours-27042707
Liverpool Crown Court heard today, Friday, that Clare Holden parked her car at the rear of her address on Falkner Square in the Georgian Quarter at around 9.15am on September 21 and took her dog out of the vehicle on its lead. As she did so, 31-year-old Highton-Lawal let her two XL bullies out into the communal garden and parking area off their leads.
...the dogs "immediately" attempted to attack Ms Holden's pet. She was left holding her own dog aloft in the air in order to keep it out of harm's way.
But Highton-Lawal's dogs began "throwing themselves" at her. One of them, Walter, sunk its teeth into her right arm and "locked on"
The victim was left "scarred for life", having been mauled while seeking to protect her own dog from harm. The owner of the two attacking dogs, Suraya Highton-Lawal, then callously walked away despite the severely injured woman's pleas for help.
Liverpool Crown Court heard today, Friday, that Clare Holden parked her car at the rear of her address on Falkner Square in the Georgian Quarter at around 9.15am on September 21 and took her dog out of the vehicle on its lead. As she did so, 31-year-old Highton-Lawal let her two XL bullies out into the communal garden and parking area off their leads.
Ken Grant, prosecuting, described how the dogs "immediately" attempted to attack Ms Holden's pet. She was left holding her own dog aloft in the air in order to keep it out of harm's way.
But Highton-Lawal's dogs began "throwing themselves" at her. One of them, Walter, sunk its teeth into her right arm and "locked on".
It eventually released its grip and Ms Holden managed to get herself and her dog back into the car, although it continued trying to bite her legs as she did so. The complainant shouted for Highton-Lawal - of Low Wood Street in Kensington - to call her an ambulance, but the mother-of-two ignored her cries and went back into her flat.
Police and paramedics attended the scene, with Ms Holden subsequently spending five days in Whiston Hospital and undergoing "significant" plastic surgery. Walter was later destroyed.
A statement read out to the court on Ms Holden's behalf described how she has been left "paranoid" about the injury to her arm and feeling "self conscious" about it. She also stated that "seeing the dogs triggers something deep inside of her" while she "relives the scenario over and over again", adding: "I am scarred for life.
"My arm is deformed. I am reminded of this attack every single day."
Highton-Lawal admitted being in charge of a dangerously out of control dog causing injury. She was handed a 16-month imprisonment suspended for two years.
Judge David Hale described Ms Holden's injuries as "completely horrendous", saying in his sentencing remarks: "Looking at the photographs, Walter looks like a powerful dog. Walter went for Ms Holden's dog as she was getting out of her car without causing you any hassle at all.
"Walter has caused her the most awful injury. The skin has come off from the arm for quite a considerable area - inches, very unpleasant.
"She was in hospital being treated for five days, and thereafter having to undergo skin grafts. She is terribly conscious of it - seeing it every day, feeling it every day and having to walk past the scene every day.

I've seen figures but can't recall the amount, but it runs to thousands very very quickly.

Poor lady.

People here focus on deaths, but these breeds are responsible for many many vicious maulings.

I am slightly hopeful that because this issue is taking up so much police time they are now incentivized to deal with it properly, it must be terrifying for police officers to regularly have to run the gamut of these dangerous large predators.

If one of these 'pets' goes for you there is nothing that you will be able to do, you will be seriously injured or killed and no one will be able to help you.

It depends on the dog. Well behaved dogs, fine by me if off lead. They should probably be on leads for walking but they also need to be let off at some point I think, to run and really stretch their legs and use up energy.

This sums it up for me.

If the dog is well socialised, excellent recall etc and is in an area that doesn't include traffic, livestock and has lots of open space then I see no reason for them to be on leash. If a dog has poor recall, is not socialised, is still in training or the environment isn't suitable for it then leash.

I have a very high energy working dog. We have to be able to let him off lead to do scent work and let him 'flush' as is his natural instinct so we're providing the right amount of stimulation for him. He's excellent with recall and is trained to ignore other people and dogs. I'm very specific in where we let him off and if another dog is approaching I leash him before they get to us. If other people are coming I can distract him easily with a ball etc so his full attention is on me until they're passed.

I think it depends a lot on the dog, the owner, the environment and the training. Blanket rules wouldn't be suitable for all breeds.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/woman-attacked-dogs-east-london/
Another dog attack, South London, woman attacked by three off lead bull breeds.

Footage of the attack
https://twitter.com/dullneat/status/1666501073878790145?t=sjg17tQm-jvXnwAzz9Vj1w

What is wrong with people? I hope shes ok but that's.no way to handle 3 huge dogs. Loose! Idiots.

This. In most cases I think dogs should be on a short lead.

However, if you know your dog will trot past people and not bother them, then they don't need to be on a lead. My only caveat to that would be that you know they won't bother people, but the person coming towards you won't know that. So think about putting them on a lead if eg there is a small child or someone looks nervous, or at least getting hold of them until they've gone past.

Under control does not = extendable leads!

according to the news article:
"The woman was taken to hospital where she is being treated for a significant injury to her right arm, the injuries are not life threatening.
"The man in charge of the dogs had left with the animals prior to police arrival.
"Enquires are in hand to trace the dogs and owner."

Thank you sharkradar. Poor woman, hope she's not more seriously injured. I despair of these psychopathic dog owners with their huge dogs and inadequate personalities. Utter witless cowards, all of them. The situation regarding these dogs is insane.

The problem is with the phrase 'under control' as it can be interpreted as the dog's owner wants it to be. The dog that bit me, leaving a six inch scar on my arm, was under control as in it was on a lead, but it had enough lead to lunge at me before its owner pulled it off me. The dog that barked unprovoked at me as I passed it at a bus stop the other week was under control as in it was on a lead but I jumped out of my skin and felt very threatened. The dog that jumped up at me today was under control if you count being hauled off by its collar by an owner who did not look at me, let alone apologise.

So I would say the law needs to be clarified. For me, a dog is a predator and will act like one and should be on a short lead at all times unless in its own home.

@ColdHandsHotHead I agree, ime dog owners are very prone to seeing the pet through rose tinted glasses, they are in love with it and it can do no wrong etc.
I'm sorry to hear about the attacks that you have suffered🙏

Sorry to hear that @ColdHandsHotHead - you make a very good point. You do see a lot of very reactive dogs who lunge towards you but are fortunately held by strong humans. If the human is less strong, or doesn't react quickly themselves, the dog can still get to you. The only reason I think some dogs are ok off-lead is because they actually get in the way more on-lead. Especially on those extendable ones.

One trend I dislike is that people walk with the lead held behind them and keep swapping sides, so the dog swaps sides too which is annoying when you are plotting your course to avoid the side the dog is on. Also - please keep yourself between me and your dog.

It comes down to: your dog should never hassle anyone else - human, dog, or other animal. Ever. If it does, it is not under control.

Well I would have said that a squirrel minds its own business and doesn't decide to lollop up to strangers "being friendly" wanting to lick them, jump up at them etc and worse, knock you over or bite you.

However, if you have the misfortune to be anywhere near a squirrel when it has young, you might be in for a shock. They can be very aggressive. But people don't have squirrels as pets and don't take them everywhere with them.

As I said above, if you choose to have a dog you make sure it never inconveniences anyone else.

Well I have had a squirrel running up my leg when chased by another.

My dog never bothers people, she doesn’t really like many so ignores most people (which can’t be said the same for many parents with toddlers who think it’s sweet when the kid comes running up to my poor dog (who is in incredibly cute) arms outstretched squealing.

This. My dogs would be bored stiff if they were never allowed to run around and sniff things. Their recall is good 99% of the time. I walk in the local woods and most of the time we are the only ones there.

A friend's elderly father was only last week knocked off his feet when out walking by a large, boisterous "puppy" who had zero recall and who jumped up at him. Poor old guy fell over, banged his head and never recovered consciousness.

I'm sure the owner of that dog feels awful - at least I hope they do - but they will have been one of the "Oh not MY dog, my dog is SO friendly and just wants to say hello!" types.

Sadly I do think so. The explosion in dog ownership by far too many people who shouldn't even be allowed a goldfish has inevitably meant that there are far too many people who aren't even aware about the law of dogs being under close control, let alone give a shit about it.

The ridiculous rise in livestock attacks is more than good enough reason to make off lead dogs in public illegal. Yes the few have ruined it for the many.

I speak as an owner of sheep and multiple pet dogs.