Friend's DD took photos of my DD in underwear

[lovemummyfairy]

First time post but long term lurker.

Background - DH's family live 2.5hrs away in the town in which he grew up. His best friend since school still lives in the same town. Whenever we visit DH's family we try to fit in a catch up/visit with his friend. Friend (let's call him John) is married to 'Jane' and they have one DD (9) 'Emma'. We have 3 primary aged DC, youngest is DD (6). In the last couple of years our visits to them have increased in length and frequency, partly because our children are older (DH's family tended to visit us more when DC were babies and toddlers as easier for us due to distance, then Covid obviously stopped visits for a while) and Jane and I now organise the visits as DH and his friend would leave it all to the last minute and then it wasn't always possible to see them.
Our visits have increased from just going round to their house for a few hours, to days out, overnight visits and more recently 2 night stay. My DD loves going to visit Emma - loves being friends with an older girl, loves her bedroom which is like Aladdin's cave to my DD. My oldest DC doesn't like to visit, mostly because he's an older boy, finds Emma annoying etc. Middle DC isn't fussed either way. DH, while he likes to see his friend, would prefer shorter visits as he would rather spend more time with his family.
Jane and John are very generous and welcoming hosts. DH and I have sensed that the intensity of the visits has increased mostly due to Jane's insistence which we think is because of her DD. Emma is a very bright and confident child but, by Jane's own admission, she is hard work, 'in your face' and intense. It seems that she has difficulty making or maintaining any friendships. Jane says that playdates have always been a disaster so she now avoids having any. So we think Jane likes having us visit because we have similar age kids who mostly get on well with Emma.
Unfortunately when we visited recently an incident occurred which really concerned me. Oldest DC came running downstairs to tell us that Emma was taking photos on her ipad of DD in her underwear - for a dare. I rushed upstairs, as did John, to deal with it. John spoke to Emma while I dealt with my DD .My DD looked terrified, thinking she was in big trouble for what she did. Emma started crying about something else to distract John from the main problem, something we have noticed she has done before. Obviously we checked that the photos were deleted and John and Jane reassured us that Emma couldn't send them to anyone as she can only message the two of them, doesn't have social media etc, but they didn't seem overly concerned that their child had been encouraging another child to strip off and take pictures of her.
Since then, oldest DC has told us about other things that Emma says or does while they are there, which are inappropriate. I don't think that I dealt with the situation as well as I could have, it all happened so quickly and looking back I wonder if I could have done anything differently.
Also feeling awkward about future visits as we don't want our DC, especially DD, to spend so much time with Emma,but don't want to affect the friendship we have with John and Jane. So, more of WWYD rather than AIBU?

Friends that live 2.5 hours away. Multiple kids?

how often do you actually get together?

I wouldn’t have my child unattended with this child btw

I wouldn’t want want to put my kids in a situation like that again (especially if it was the first in apparently many occasions I’d just been unaware of) less so in the company of other parents who didn’t also see the severity. If you want the friendship maybe just see them separately as adults when you can get babysitters? I’d not leave my kids unattended with a child I thought was inappropriate no matter how close I was to the parents.

We usually get together during school holidays. As mentioned, they live in DH's home town, so we see them when we visit DH's family.

Op aside from your 6 year old daughter…. No one in your family seems to really want to get together with this family!! Most bizarre

You need to get your priorities right.

Protect your DC first and foremost, friendships come second.

I'd also be concerned about Emma, where is she learning this behaviour?

I would be concernedabout how a 9 year old would think to do this... massive safeguarding issues... I would report to ss.

Sounds to me like their DD is being exposed to things she shouldn’t. I can’t understand where a 9 year old would even get the idea to take photos of another child in their underwear for a dare. It sounds disturbing. I would only see them when you are able to meet without your children. There is obviously a reason their DD doesn’t maintain friendships. Don’t sacrifice your own child to maintain your friendship with these people, especially if they didn’t see the severity of the situation.

Yes I was also wondering what is happening with Emma for her to be exposed to these things - the taking of pictures in underwear and the other concerning things your DC mentioned. What were the other things OP?

You definitely need to question whether you should be visiting them again when children could be alone together as something is clearly going on. Also worrying that Jane and John don’t seem to have the same concerns as you about the situation that occurred.

I would not stay at that house again and would not let the children play together unsupervised. I’d stick to day time visit and play only where they can been seen.

That behaviour is very concerning from such a young child and I would wonder where it has come from.

What else has their child done that has been inappropriate? I think you need to pass that on to the parents if they aren’t already aware. I’d also maybe check in a few tome with your children that they understand about keeping their body private, consent and if there is anything else that has occurred that makes then unhappy/uncomfortable?

This. If you can’t say this exactly to them then I’d simply say your DD now has commitments in school holidays like new clubs, or just with other local friends and therefore can’t come to visit anymore.

Personally I would say directly why, as I think they should be aware that their child isn’t simply “intense” and actually they need to address her behaviour directly rather than just gloss over it.

The most important thing is to protect your children. I would not be allowing my daughter stay in that house again. I would limit get togethers to meeting outside the home and that you are with your child all the time. I would have no issue with telling her parents why.

I would be concerned about Emma. Where is she learning this behaviour from. Depending on the nature of the other inappropriate behaviour I would raise it with her parents and or social services.

Pls do not allow your daughter to stay at their house or to have much contact with Emma.

I would urge you to raise your concerns with her parents so they can investigate if something more sinister is going on - is there someone taking advantage of Emma online?

The best thing you can do is take care of your child, whatever Emma's parents feel. Your child is not a toy for her parents to use to help their own kid just because she has issues making friends.

If something were to happen if you were quick to let this slide your daughter will never forgive you.

@lovemummyfairy
I am not quite as draconian in my response. These parents are clearly struggling. You don’t really know why or what is going on. You must remember though that Emma is a child. She’s not yet a functioning adult. She might well be influenced by others at school or even tv shows. It’s possibly a child that needs a different style of parenting.

Therefore I would not lose your friends over it. You must though absolutely make sure your DD understands she does not get undressed in front of others when asked to do so. However girls try on clothes and dress up so DD must be taught to recognise the difference. She must immediately speak to you if anything like this happens again. It’s not to early to teach her warning signs! If a request feels wrong and is covert, it probably is wrong. She needs to recognise that.

When you see them next, how about going out to an attraction? Go for a walk or go to a play area. Just anything not in their house all day. Maybe just a meal and make sure DD is playing in sight of you. I suspect your friends are mortified. Do not get all huffy over safeguarding with them. They did deal with the incident but you need to make sure there is no repeat.

I cant speak for anyone else but I would put my 6 year old daughter in front of any friendship 🙄 she is 6 years old for fucks sake.

I can’t understand where a 9 year old would even get the idea to take photos of another child in their underwear for a dare.

and I would wonder where it has come from.

the girl is 9. She presumably goes to school? Probably half her class have phones. It was certainly the age when the boys started commenting on girls bodies and boys in the year above were asking about photos (from girls in their class) at DD's school.

I'd definitely be limiting contact. Can't you leave the kids with your family and go out with the parents for a meal?

Well who gave Emma the dare in the first place, is a question that needs answering.

I would never under any circumstances go near them or speak to them again. You have a duty to protect your child, you have been witness to one bad enough instance but your DC has divulged other sensitive and inappropriate information. To be honest my initial reaction would have been to call the police but as everything was deleted theres no evidence, but there's no way in hell you should have anything to do with that family again, they're a danger, and they sound like they completely enable their daughters predatory behaviour.

You have questionable friends if that is how their child behaves. What did Emma say exactly that was inappropriate and how old is she. It would make me question everything

There's no way she just came up with doing this randomly it definitely looks like she has been exposed to it. I wouldn't trust the parents at all. Definitely get in touch with nspcc .

A 9 year old would not think to take photos of another child in their underwear unless they have been exposed to that somewhere.

Honestly, anyone taking pictures of my child in their underwear- regardless of context, it would be the end of my child going back to that place for their own protection. That’s the only way to prevent this happening again.

I would report to ss not to telltales or get people into trouble but just incase it's one piece of a bigger picture.

It's tricky it could be Innocent or not. I would be wary of them having unsupervised play

If they live in your DH hometown just meet at a park etc the next couple of times you visit.
While it is inappropriate my DDs have taken pictures of each other’s naked butts before now because they thought it was hilarious.
Id be wary but not enough to cut contact. She’s a 9 year old kid. Not a paedophile

Thanks for replies so far. Sorry I don't know how to highlight individual comments or questions so will give more general info.
Other inappropriate behaviour- one example, we came back from a day out so I told all the kids to wash their hands straight away before eating. All of them piled into the downstairs loo, which is quite roomy so they could all fit, so they could wash them. Emma immediately sat down on the loo to have a wee while they were all in there. My 3 ran out straight away as they didn't want to be in there while she was weeing.
One of my boys was annoying her once so she said to him if he didn't stop she'd 'lick his arse'. This wasn't said in front of adults but again my eldest ran to tell us. Jane was horrified but also seems weary with it all so just gave more of an eye roll about it. I asked Emma where she had heard something like that (as some of you have mentioned, how does a 9yr old know this stuff?) and she said boys at school say these things to her. I told Jane she should report this to the school immediately.
Like most of you have suggested I think we will keep our distance from now on but not cut contact. There are no red flags in terms of the family, although I know that isn't a guarantee of anything, and I certainly don't see her as a dangerous predator,she's a little girl of 9 fgs ( with admittedly some issues - Jane did once ask me if she thought she should have Emma's general behaviour investigated, so she is more concerned than perhaps she shows). Also my own kids are well aware of keeping private parts private, consent etc and I do keep those conversations open with them.

Your daughter mustn’t spend time with this child. Obviously it will just be imitative behaviour at this stage - but she sounds like she has some problems which may well escalate, so she isn’t good company for a younger child.

If you meet them as a family don’t have the girls spend alone time. You will need to explain this to the parents - I know you don’t want to cause conflict but you need to do this, you can phrase it in such a way that doesn’t blame Emma but rather refers to it as behaviour she’s picking up at school. If this offends them then you do have to just live with losing them.