To thinks SATs don’t really matter?

[whodawhodaeho]

DD is year 6 and her class teacher( and year head) has told them that if they don’t do well in SATs then they’ll be put with the disruptive, badly behaved kids in ‘big’ school. Ie put in lower sets forever

I have told her this is nonsense - that the new school will assess her themselves up til Oct half term then stream sets for certain subjects (which they do - her DB is there ) and the SATs don’t matter.
And they continually assess and move kids around according to ability/ progress through school terms/ years

YABU - yes they matter, and yes secondary school will pay attention to the results

YANBU - they don’t really matter

Yes, I agree. That why I said "it's not all going to be diligent, hard-working, low-ability students", by which I meant that some of them will be, but there'll be a mix.

Also this

My now year 9 DS was a bright but bored Year 6 and now flourishing at secondary in every subject. Particular languages, sports, science and music - the things SATs don’t measure
God knows what his future would look like if his secondary had taken his year 5/6 ‘results’ and reports as a blueprint for the kind of student his was or for his ability.

Myself personally I did complete SATs and I found that senior school based what set you was in on your SATs and then they would reassess in year 8 - but once you was in a low set it was very very hard to work your way up.
Same thing with my younger sister 7 years after me.
So yes I’d say they’re important.

Sooner they’re done away with the better TBH.

I do feel a bit sorry for the teachers who have to put up with the pressure of SATs, telling kids they matter when the teachers actually know they don’t for the kid - just for the school.
plus- the grammar papers! Have you seen them? They make no f-ing sense, and I say that as a writer! The ‘technical’ terms they’re expected to know have very little practical application when it comes to actually writing.

This is so true. And can cause huge stress to children. My DD got greater depth in SATs. Her target grades for everything, including textiles, history and PE are 8s and 9s! While she is achieving that in maths, she isn't in all other subjects and is constantly stressed about it and feels she is failing.

DD is year 6 and her class teacher( and year head) has told them that if they don’t do well in SATs then they’ll be put with the disruptive, badly behaved kids in ‘big’ school. Ie put in lower sets forever <<<< really? Did the teacher really, really said this? If a teacher came out with this claptrap I wouldn't want them teaching my children. What about children with SEN in your child's class, no matter how well behaved they are they will always struggle to succeed academically, because our schooling system only fits an academic mould? Not going to do their brittle confidence any good is it?
I don't think Richard Branson or Alan Sugar were very 'successful' at school, done alright in life though haven't they?

I kind of think they do. More the habits you establish for the next level of education.

Hi @whodawhodaeho

I totally agree with you. My DD11 starts her SATs today and she's been pretty nervous/anxious about it as their teachers have been hammering them with practise tests for months and being quite shouty apparently

I'll tell you what I told her - SATs are used to measure how well the school has taught it's students - they reflect more on the teachers than the pupils and will not in any way affect her future (high school, college, career).

All we've asked of DD is that she do her best. That is all she can do.

Yanbu

Ds school has been sending home revision sheets. They've made excellent scrap paper for shopping lists.

The constant DID the teacher really say this???
yes, the teacher did, it’s come from different sources and like I said my DD wasn’t that bothered by it… and knowing the teacher ( same teacher taught DS) I can absolutely believe it.

All the people saying they only reflect what the school is doing, that’s not true is it? Many secondary schools use them for setting in year 7…. At least initially or for the first year or two.

I think it depends on the secondary as to how the grades are used. I remember our first maths and English lessons in year 7, the teacher went down the register and read our what we all got.

I dont really like this idea of teaching kids they mean nothing and all this “they don’t measure how wonderful you are as a person” Exams measure what they need to measure.

'All the people saying they only reflect what the school is doing, that’s not true is it? Many secondary schools use them for setting in year 7…. At least initially or for the first year or two..'

well, clearly it depends on the school, but DD's doesn't. They have mixed ability until the end of October then have assessments, and that continues in any subject that setting is used in.

And any school that take the results of such limited tests at aged 10/11 and uses them to judge the ability of a child for one or to years, really isn't that good a school.
Particularly as the gap between summer born kids and autumn born can be hug in primary but very quickly closes in secondary.

Back in the day I sat something called Richmond tests in junior 4 as it was then and apparently they were used to.stream us in high school🤔
I remember having to.do them again in he first year of high school.,I started high school,in 1985 so it was a long time ago.

‘Exams measure what they need to measure’ - do they thought? I would argue that they measure what they can, often a poor approximation of the actual skill set we are aiming to develop.

DS11 is completely fed up with his SATs preparations, and has found year 6 really boring, when it should be the fun final year of primary school. I've told him that back in the olden days my last year of primary was spent doing a bit of work in the morning then rounders on an afternoon. It was such a fun year, and it's really sad that today's Y6s are so bogged down with tests instead.

Presumably that was pre National Curriculum? Even if they didn't sit SATs, there's still lots to cover in the year 6 curriculum.

As a teacher YANBU they are pointless. As you’ve said when DD starts year 7, she will be given baseline assessments, have CAT testing all in the first half term, sometimes the first month and they are used to set/re set classes

I would love to say that SATs don't matter in secondary school, but my experience is that unfortunately they do.

My dd didn't get her SATs results (whole year group annulled, not the children's fault) and it's been a complete PITA for the whole of secondary school. Yes, they set according to CAT tests, but my dd's targets were based on her getting the lowest possible SAT score so basically failing. Despite my asking several times that her targets be adjusted, they weren't, so dd went through KS3 with every teacher expecting very little of her. Despite her doing well and knowing that the low expectations were because of her non-existent SATs results, this really affected her confidence and self-esteem.

At the beginning of Y10, the school looked at the data, decided which students needed to 'show progress' and moved my dd to lower sets. She was doing work that she'd done in primary school. They wouldn't move her up, basically because it made no difference to their data how she did.

I moved her to another school (not just because of this although actually learning something is what children go to school for) and she was put in low sets as the data from her previous school showed her targets to be very low. She quickly worked her way up, but missed out on vital parts of the curriculum with set-hopping. We're lucky enough to have been able to afford some tutoring in subjects where she missed enormous chunks, and she's pretty much caught up now.

The lack of SATs results meant that her predicted GCSE grades were lower than she scored in her mocks (computer algorithm put a ceiling on what she could be predicted). Although these were adjusted, it wasn't in time for her to miss out on a sixth form offer that she wanted.

I cannot wait for her to finish KS4 and never have to think about bloody SATs again.

Her younger sister didn't do SATs (one of the covid years). Schools seem to have coped with whole year groups with just teacher assessment from primary school, and it's a crying shame that they couldn't have abolished the SATs altogether.

Yabu. Of course they matter. Why sugar coat and wrap kids in cotton wool? They need at least some pressure to achieve. Personal pride if nothing else.

Bottom sets do have more than their fair share of badly behaved kids. Where do people think the kids who mess around and do no work end up? The teacher shouldn’t have said it, but the children will find out for themselves next term.

They don't matter, seriously this culture of exam stress is so damaging. People have been doing exams forever and very well at them actually, the recent thing of kids sick with anxiety is terrible and starts with this nonsense in Y6. Personally I went to a shocking primary and was in the bottom set for a few things for a while, I had wonderful teachers and moved up quickly, such is life. We need to normalise these things (if they happen) it's really not the end of the world anyway. Working hard is important and good grades to a certain extent, but I don't think this type of pressure gets anyone anywhere.

They matter because the gov use them to measure the specific path a child who achieved that should take for progress 8 headline score at gcse. Therefore when schools are trying to improve results they may use target grades to set interventions etc.
So a yr6 achieving very well who actually is not greater depth might be pushed harder and a yr6 who is very bright but terrible at tests is expected a 5 and not pushed at all.
It's not good practice but it is how schools are judged.
It is perhaps a fairer measure than % 5 good gcses as it accounts for low scorers who achieve a 3 or 4 which is actually quite a good result for them.

@Windowcleaning im so sorry to read your post ( secondary school teacher for nearly 20 years). This fills me with despair. The way these statistics and targets, developed from sats, are used is an absolute farce at times. Well done to you and your DD for coping so well with these frustrations, I can only hope you are able to continue so that DD gets the education and training she wants eventually.
Unfortunately teachers can do nothing about these systems, they are required to use them. For some children and parents the targets etc can be a guide to how children should/could progress so they meet a certain need but the it’s stupid that so much of the education system is based on them.