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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To thinks SATs don’t really matter?

362 replies

whodawhodaeho · 09/05/2023 08:12

DD is year 6 and her class teacher( and year head) has told them that if they don’t do well in SATs then they’ll be put with the disruptive, badly behaved kids in ‘big’ school. Ie put in lower sets forever

I have told her this is nonsense - that the new school will assess her themselves up til Oct half term then stream sets for certain subjects (which they do - her DB is there ) and the SATs don’t matter.
And they continually assess and move kids around according to ability/ progress through school terms/ years

YABU - yes they matter, and yes secondary school will pay attention to the results

YANBU - they don’t really matter

OP posts:
DietrichandDiMaggio · 12/05/2023 20:29

Can I add, whole class teaching is, and should be, manageable in primary schools, but by secondary the gap between higher and lower attainers just gets too wide.

ScruffyGrape · 12/05/2023 20:30

You are not being unreasonable. We put no pressure on our child, just said do your best, this is not gcse's you will be going to your chosen HS either way. She broke down crying twice during SATs because of the pressure the school put on them about them.

Lcb123 · 12/05/2023 20:36

They don’t matter. No exams really matter as long as you do well enough to get to the next stage.

Boomboom22 · 12/05/2023 20:38

Countries that set least and latest eg Finland and Japan do well on pisa. Then again so do Singapore and they set very early. As a teacher I think a bit of setting or at least tabling within mixed ability is def better for higher ability. However it is best for lower ability to be stretched so setting is bad for them.

Doobydoo · 12/05/2023 21:06

Agree with @Needmorelego I was in 'normal' mixed group for 1st year at secondary then in the 'remedial' class(as it was called then) for the 2nd year and then in the 3rd year the 'top' set. This was a few decades ago though. Thank goidness ds2 is home edded. What an awful thing for the teacher to say.

Doobydoo · 12/05/2023 21:07

goodness!

Toomuchtrouble4me · 12/05/2023 21:30

SATs only matter up the school and don’t benefit the children sitting them at all.

eastegg · 12/05/2023 21:47

Suzannargh · 09/05/2023 08:35

You could say the same about GCSEs and A Levels - they don’t define you and life will work out right regardless of grades.

However it is an important assessment measure both for the children and the school and in some cases will define which set they’re put in. YABU for downplaying the importance and letting her have an 11pm bedtime unless the audition is the final stage for something life changing.

No you really couldn’t say the same about A levels. That’s ridiculous. Of course GCSEs and A levels don’t necessarily have to define you, but SATS are of minuscule importance to the child compared to them.

OP I think you’re right to have sent DD to the audition. Part of practising for tests is learning that life continues around them and you might not get ideal conditions every time you have to take one. My yr6 has carried on with evening activities this week (although admittedly he’s gone to bed before 11!).

NEmama · 12/05/2023 21:54

Sunnylassie · 12/05/2023 15:42

If sats generate GCSE targets and enable to stream children into supposed suitable sets, what happened to all the children who didn’t do them due to covid lockdowns?

The primaries estimated their scores so my now y8 Ds who is in top set has a grade 5 flight path 😔

NEmama · 12/05/2023 21:56

Oh and anyone not seeing the need for sets.
You try teaching quadratic equations to some kids and others in the same year can't do 3x4
Yes this is the reality of secondary teaching

jenkel · 12/05/2023 22:25

When my dd done says many years ago, we went into it not thinking too much about it. Just told her to try her best but it has no bearing on anything, how wrong were we.

At secondary school when we were asking for additional help, we were told she wasn’t priority as she was reaching her predicted grades, predicted from Sats.

Be vary wary

Summerwhereareyou · 12/05/2023 22:34

Tell dd that child in bottom set is there usually because they have home issues meaning they struggle to concentrate on schoolwork... Parent has serious illness/addiction or mental health issues.
They may be extremely bright but can't concentrate after looking after siblings or parent.

They may be extremely bright but unfortunately the one trick pony school system we have means they weren't given the opportunity to read another way and they are illiterate like a massive % of our prisoners... Or they learned too late by which time they had lost lots of learning.

They didn't have a parent to help them learn to read another way.
. Or they have other mild sen our stupid clunky system can't cope with or they have more deeper sen our system can't cope with.
. Such dc have already been labeled by secondary and ate quite frankly feeling pretty awful about themselves and school and are bored out of their minds.

Summerwhereareyou · 12/05/2023 22:36

@jenkel that's confusing what do you mean?
Her sats where low or high?

jenkel · 12/05/2023 23:40

Summerwhereareyou · 12/05/2023 22:36

@jenkel that's confusing what do you mean?
Her sats where low or high?

Her sat scores were low, so as she was reaching her low predicted grades they wouldn’t give her additional help, they would only help the children who were reaching lower than their predicted.

OMG12 · 12/05/2023 23:42

NEmama · 12/05/2023 21:56

Oh and anyone not seeing the need for sets.
You try teaching quadratic equations to some kids and others in the same year can't do 3x4
Yes this is the reality of secondary teaching

If we are talking a 13/14 year old that can’t do 3x4 I would be seriously questioning the standard of education that child has received to date.

OMG12 · 12/05/2023 23:57

Gymrabbit · 12/05/2023 17:05

OMG12

you have proved time and again on this thread that you know less than fuck all about modern education and the types of children who are taught together yet you keep bleating on telling experienced teachers how to do their jobs.
And strangely not one practical suggestion, just platitudes.
if it’s so easy and you know so much, how come you’re not a teacher? I mean with your vast experience of once attending school it’s amazing that schools aren’t all ringing you up to ask for your expertise.

I really hope you have less of an attitude to your class, do you swear at them if they disagree with you?

How about setting work that can be approached at different levels? That’s what our teachers did. What subject do you teach. Schools have long dealt with kids of varying levels and often undiagnosed sen issues within one class. Why is it suddenly impossible?

I wouldn’t be a teacher because I couldn’t be arsed being surrounded by the extensive left wing views. I would get frustrated by the internal politics of teaching. I would be frustrated by the focus on getting kids through exams rather than education.

maybe if the government got rid of the targets, the pointless testing and paperwork it would leave teachers more time to address these issues.

OMG12 · 13/05/2023 00:01

jenkel · 12/05/2023 23:40

Her sat scores were low, so as she was reaching her low predicted grades they wouldn’t give her additional help, they would only help the children who were reaching lower than their predicted.

Show quote history

This is exactly the problem once labelled kids find it almost impossible to escape the expectations (or lack thereof) placed on them. Schools seem focused on statistics rather than ensuring kids meet their full potential. I suspect the only way round it is to hire private tutors

OMG12 · 13/05/2023 00:07

DietrichandDiMaggio · 12/05/2023 20:14

I can’t see why teachers can’t teach mixed ability groups, they managed it perfectly well through my school life. There was a certain amount of leading be example from the good and bright kids, class detentions meant peer pressure to behave well.

It's not the responsibility of well-behaved/bright children to educate other children and class detentions are one of the worst methods of behaviour management.

Setting by example is a great way and whole class detentions always worked as a child. Maybe if kids learned a bit more group responsibility in school it might be reflected better in society.

OMG12 · 13/05/2023 00:10

If a week of 40 minute papers in English and maths at age 10/11 is being used to stream kids for GCSEs aged 15/16 in a different school - the education system is massively failing many children.

NEmama · 13/05/2023 01:09

@OMG12 said student is y11 she came to me last year from another school with undiagnosed sen. She is very weak. When I was at school she would probably have gone to a special school.

DietrichandDiMaggio · 13/05/2023 01:11

Setting by example is a great way and whole class detentions always worked as a child. Maybe if kids learned a bit more group responsibility in school it might be reflected better in society.

In what way did they work- do you really think the well behaved children were happy to be punished for something they didn't do? I'm sure as an adult you'd be happy to be disciplined for a colleague's inappropriate behaviour.

Walkaround · 13/05/2023 05:59

Whole class detentions are a ludicrous idea.

WillowFae · 13/05/2023 06:08

Secondary schools tend to do CAT or MIDYIS testing in the autumn term of year 7. These then help decide the sets and targets.

my two never did SATS and they were just fine. Eldest is now at Uni having gained 3 excellent A Level results. In no way will SATS decide their future.

it is in the school’s best interest that they do well as it measures the school, not the children.

OMG12 · 13/05/2023 06:54

DietrichandDiMaggio · 13/05/2023 01:11

Setting by example is a great way and whole class detentions always worked as a child. Maybe if kids learned a bit more group responsibility in school it might be reflected better in society.

In what way did they work- do you really think the well behaved children were happy to be punished for something they didn't do? I'm sure as an adult you'd be happy to be disciplined for a colleague's inappropriate behaviour.

They created peer pressure on the naughty kids to behave. It’s really not that hard to work out.

OMG12 · 13/05/2023 06:55

Walkaround · 13/05/2023 05:59

Whole class detentions are a ludicrous idea.

Actually they were extremely effective

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