Britain without the slave trade?

[FancyFanny]

There's lots of talk of how the Britain's wealth was a result of the slave trade an colonialism and how we should all be trying to pay that back and rectify it some how.

I just wondered what people think Britain would be like today if those things had never happened?

No that’s completely wrong too. The Black Death would have happened anyway because there had been trade E-W along the Silk Road for thousands of years. As well as trade N-S from Black Sea to Baltic Sea along the rivers. Plus by Ghengis Khan’s time, there was sea trade from India and East Asia to ports in the Persian Gulf and Red Sea. Various empires expanding and contracting interrupted trade, but didn’t stop it completely.

The Black Death of the 1340s also was not the first time that disease Yersinia Pestis had been a pandemic in Europe. The Plague of Justinian had happened in the 500s.

So, no you are linking peace with one Empire builder who conquered much of Asia with a plague that already had a history of re-occurring in Eurasia & North Africa for a good two thousand years before. They are not correlated at all. If war had still been going on, the Black Death would still have happened.

In addition, that’s not how Ghengis conquered. He did not invade, take slaves and sod off. He invaded, picked a big rich city, razed it to the ground except for a mountain of severed heads of all the inhabitants- men, women, children. Except for a dozen or so he spared. He then sent these as messengers- submit or suffer the same fate. Most kingdoms submitted and opened their cities gates to him. Until he got to Eastern Europe and they refused.

Now, yes they had slaves, but the purpose of Ghengis’ wars were not to take slaves but to create a vast empire by gaining territory and client kingdoms. You do that by replacing their aristocracy with your own, not by enslaving everyone.

Always , keep learning and asking on the threads, I do it because people do have different knowledge and understanding, and it helps give perspectives for different parts of history, Google, YouTube ect is very good but always use the threads

Below the radar of the world in general, or just below the radar of largely proud-to-be-ignorant-of-world-affairs Brits...

If the global discussion on the repercussions of slavery slapped you across the backside with a bass fiddle, would you notice?

I have wondered if similar conversations happen in Portugal or on Portuguese websites? I’d like to think they do. Perhaps the impression that Britain gets unfairly targeted as the only perpetrator of the transatlantic slave trade while others seem to fly under the radar, is because I and perhaps you are usually on English speaking websites linked to Britain in one way or another either by being in the U.K. or in a former British colony? When we are only in the English corner of world discourse, its only natural that the focus would therefore be on Britain’s crimes against humanity, rather than Portugal or anyone else’s.

I have read articles translated from Spanish that discuss the legacy of the transatlantic slave trade in the Spanish colonies. So I do know that when it’s Spain, or former Spanish colonies the focus is very much on Spain’s role.

Let's tear down the pyramids, demolish the coliseum, liberare everyone from Australia.... the past is the past.
So long as we learn from mistakes and never repeat

Speaking from experience, these discussions do happen in former Portuguese colonies. And in other former colonies. There's really no reason for British people to feel so victimised if people are learning about history from the point of view of the losers.

It's like people who object to knowing about Winston Churchill's role in the Bengal Famine because it's revisionism. It's not. It's just learning about stuff that was brushed under the carpet until now.

@Morestrangerthings

You’re very welcome, but bigger thanks to @ChopperC110P and @DownNative for sticking with this thread.

What have the pyramids got to do with this? They weren't built by slaves. Many of the workers were farmers who worked on the pyramids when it was the wrong season for growing crops. They were also paid.

Because some academics/historians suggest the number of people needed to build them could only be achieved by slavery

The pyramids had nothing to do with slaves. The atrocities committed in Australia probably are a very good example of why we shouldn't just move on. Well done for pointing this out.

Hard to find one , though.

Britain had to stop the slave trading boats across the Atlantic pretty much single handed. The other European countries were still enthusiastic traders.

Many of the African nations were willing suppliers and traders( good way of getting rid of your enemies and turning a profit). The Arabs in North Africa raided the South coast of England regularly to kidnap Britons for the slave markets of North Africa.

Norway and Sweden? I’m not sure what they were up to in the 16- 19th centuries. In medieval times, though, they were renowned slave traders, mainly of more Southern Europeans.

the problem is that until recently , slavery was an institution almost everywhere that had a developed civilisation. The Aztec and Inca , for example, were slave owning cultures….. it was endemic. So I Suppose we might say that your question is unanswerable , since there is nowhere to use as an example of an alternative .

yes, this, there are more people in slavery today than at any time in human history, and thousands of them are in England, particularly children

I've seen and heard this pro Unionist rubbish many times. I'll stick with the facts and real life accounts thanks.

Well, there we have it....an example of a close minded person who does not advance an argument in response to support their cause. 🤦‍♂️

No reputable professional historian will support a thing you said about the Highland Clearances.

The link I provided lists every single source used and, believe me, it's very extensive.

On top of that, you've fucked your own credibility because the Sceptical Scot is NOT a Unionist website. From their own About section:

"Welcome to Sceptical Scot, Scotland’s premier non-tribal forum for passionate, informed debate."

And:

"Our Editorial Board consists of journalists, activists and commentators from both sides of the Yes/No divide – and beyond. We have no axe to grind, though we welcome those who have, so long as they do so with good will, wit and without rancour – and above all with knowledge and understanding for us all to share."

Well, I guess it's up to you if you want to live in a closed off, narrow minded and ahistorical life.

Oh well......🤷‍♂️

I don't need to read a WordPress blog to understand Scottish history, but thank you. Maybe keep your bile and anger for someone more worthy, in your opinion!!

Come on people we all know that we should all accept that Britain is the source of all the world’s evils and Britain exploited the entire population of the entire world to their detriment, and caused all the poverty currently existing Al the way around the world, to the advantage of each and everyone of us.

All these rich foreigners in Britain keep telling us so, so it’s perfectly natural that all the working people of Britain have to start living under Victorian conditions again, working long hours for poor wages that don’t buy living space in “our” country again.

It's an absolute farce, we can't be held responsible for the wrong doing of our ancestors over 200years ago. Where do we stop and start our reparations? Nobody is alive who participated or was enslaved so who is to benefit from the payments?
Slavery was also a way for tribes to sell the captured prisoners of warfare, will they also be held accountable?

I mean no one said this, but congratulations on using hyperbole to whitewash slavery and colonialism. I am not even keen on reparations. What I am keen on is middle ground between the two extremes of "Yes, every British person should feel guilty" and "No fuck off, I do not want to hear another word about slavery and colonialism."

I think all the black Mners have left this discussion and are discussing it elsewhere, which should tell you something anyway.

How would we know who's who?

Scandinavia and the slave trade

It was ubiquitous.

Fair points I didn't realise, I've only been dipping in and out on the thread,

😂😂🫤

So, you’ve been commenting, asking numerous questions and challenging pp without RTFT (reading the full thread)!? 🤨

A clue may be my username (BTW, Wakanda is a fictional place). Another clue may be my contribution on this thread so far, like other pp who have commented from a similar position and/or fashion.

Sounds like wilful ignorance to me 🙄

This is a prime example of why we are tired and why a lot of us leave these types of threads, leaving you and others like you in your ignorance.