Britain without the slave trade?

[FancyFanny]

There's lots of talk of how the Britain's wealth was a result of the slave trade an colonialism and how we should all be trying to pay that back and rectify it some how.

I just wondered what people think Britain would be like today if those things had never happened?

The slave trade was abominable but it is only one example of people being oppressed and exploited our of countless examples in.all cultures. If you remove one why not the others?

Lets also not ignore the African slavers that had been selling slaves for thousands of years prior to British involvement.
Or the attempted genocide by America.

There is plenty of blame to go around, maybe its time to stop pointing fingers.

Italy? Similar size, wildly different history, granted...
They only had their 20th century "boom" in the 1960s when life became more urban and car ownership more common.
So I guess England wd have just clung on to others coat tails and developed a bit later?
Would we still have been the catalyst for the industrial revolution though?

I presume you are referring to the Trans-Atlantic slave trade? If so, 1640 to 1807 isn’t quite 400 years?

Also, how are we shitting all over countries ‘we robbed blind’?

And not for the first time!

Or the Arabic countries that castrated their African slaves and still buy them today. The numbers they traded easily swamp Europe.

Norway did have slave trade
Austria had slave trade

The posts on this thread will also highlight to you why the question is ridiculous. We've already got 'But everyone else was in on it too including the Africans' and 'But Britain ended slavery', once you get 'But it was so long ago we need to move on' then you've got a hatrick. There are very good reasons why Black people really should not talk about things like this with white people because the gaslighting and mental gymnastics involved is just not worth the effort.

The Roman Empire thrived on slaves if you go back further.

@DojaPhati agree its got political really quickly but it's a really interesting question all the same imo.
Stay focused people!!

Norway was part of the Danish Crown, and they participated in the Trans-Atlantic slave trade. The only reason Austria did not participate is because most of their working class peasants were still slaves themselves- until 1848.

Its not gaslighting or mental gymnastics to say that Africans were selling Africans into slavery for many years before the white man got involved.
Nor is it gaslighting to mention the Barbary pirates that kidnapped and sold white people in to slavery.

Italy had slaves too, they just sourced them locally and also bought in Arabic and Black African slaves from trade with the Ottoman Empire who covered Turkey, the Middle East and North Africa. Venice was the hub of their slave trade.

@Naunet yeah but the roman empire crumbled into nothing and wasn't economically linked to the italy of the 1960s.
Maybe nearly every empire or economic movement used slaves?
Brits were enslaved and kidnapped by Romans amd exported.
Sorry if not focussed...

I’m Black? Why can’t I talk to white people?

@mathanxiety

I don't think anyone is saying Britian should be clapped on the back. People are just pointing out that Britian did see the error of it's ways in terms of slavery and took steps to put an end to the horrible practice.

Sure but it’s all relative, in 400 years they could look back on the boost in the 1960s and say it turned into nothing, who knows! The Roman Empire was very successful for some time. But yes, slavery happened everywhere, it was incredibly normalised so I’m sure many would have been.

I read Alex Renton's family history recently. I hadn't realised that British taxpayers were paying for the reparations of slavery until 2015. Which means I, and most of you have paid the 'jolly old' freedoms of slavery.

What that payment was, is a loan the government took out to repay the wealthy families who were plantation owners for their perceive losses when slavery was abolished. None of the money was paid to enslaved people or to improve the quality of life for formerly enslaved people. And even when the trade of individuals on ships from Africa was banned, some ships made it through the blockades by accident or design, and trade between the islands was still acceptable, as was the breeding of 'owned' people on plantations where the offspring would become automatically enslaved.

I hadn't known this til I was fucking 42, and that in itself is criminal. No, we shouldn't just forget it or clap ourselves on the back because our ancestors were prescient enough to abolish slavery first.

Any of our ancestors who worked in manufacturing or coastal industry would have benefited indirectly from slavery due to the huge demand to ship goods to the Caribbean. We may not have chosen this, or even been aware, but our wealth today hinges on the fact that other people were oppressed and subjugated to make our lives more comfortable.

There was no money. UK became rich by trade in the Victoria time. UK industrialised very quickly and sold their engineering around the globe.
The rest belongs in the past just like the suffragettes etc. No one can ever measure the misery that slavery brought. But now is all over. We walk together

Why is Britain always picked on about slavery? There were many other countries that had and sold slaves including Africa. Why aren't they being hectored over this?

Iceland was colonised by the vikings...

We have modern slavery going on right now. There isn't nearly enough publicity or action happening.
Anyone who smokes cannabis or uses cocaine is supporting modern slavery. Fro example:
Leeds (labour) council created Holbeck. Violence against and abuse of trafficked women and girls. They wanted to duplicate the model elsewhere.
Some nail bars
Some car washes
Some domestic help and child care all over the country.
We can't change the past, but we could be doing a lot more to help enslaved people in this country today.

@ChopperC110P Who said that you can't talk to white people?

I really never know the answer to this, I can only guess it’s because of America having such a big voice in the world.

My point being that Britain still has a slave trade.