Britain without the slave trade?

[FancyFanny]

There's lots of talk of how the Britain's wealth was a result of the slave trade an colonialism and how we should all be trying to pay that back and rectify it some how.

I just wondered what people think Britain would be like today if those things had never happened?

@ChopperC110P ,@DownNative @Wakandian Thank you for your input into this thread.

It's hard to disentangle the slavery and colonialism in terms of causrs and impacts. But say tne UK did not involve itself at all in trading and widespread colonial adventures and all that came with it. What would the modern day UK look like? A lot more monocultural that is for sure, with a lot less global cultural influence. Would we be poorer? Now thetr is a question. It think we certainly woukd hsve remainrd a more agricultural society for longer.

Let's look at another Island nation that is technologically advanced, has a monarchy and has fairly traditional society - Japan. Of course as tbe Chinese and Koreans will attest Japan hsd its own brutal history of colonialism and oppression. But not on the extensive global scale of European countries like the UK.

Not sure that’s correct, in fact.

• ‘Progression rates vary considerably by ethnic group. White pupils were the least likely to progress to HE by age 19 at 39.7%, compared to 48.1% for Mixed, 62.1% for Black, 65.7% for Asian and 81.0% for Chinese pupils. Progression rates have increased for all five broad ethnic groups in 2020/21‘

from https://explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/widening-participation-in-higher-education

Incorrect.

The slave owners were all paid compensation at the time they lived.

What was paid off was the debt the then UK Government had to borrow to pay the then living slave owners. The descendants of slave owners were NOT getting money from the UK Government well into the 21st Century.

Commonplace misunderstanding.

You're welcome, @Morestrangerthings !

Russia took people from other countries my great grandparents were route marched to siberia

But "black" is a hugely diverse ethnic group as is " white" or "asain". The data needs to be examined more granularly ( is that even a word?). Black Africans in common with most 1st of 2nd generation immigrants do disproportionately well. British born carribean boys not so much.

It's actually stated in that paper

The slave trade will always be an emotive subject. For anyone in any doubt of the horrors I suggest you take a trip to the Slavery museum in Liverpool, it’s amazing.

@finallygotospeaktoSky , yes, but a lot of people evidently like to think that Britain was uniquely dreadful.

I often wonder whether e.g. French, Belgian, or Spanish nationals do so much dwelling on the evils of their own empires.

I believe the best way to acknowledge past wrongs and honour those who were enslaved would be to eradicate modern day slavery.

Spend serious money on that cause

I stepped back from this thread yesterday.
I am interested in history, visit museums, read books, ask questions, enjoy watching documentaries.
I did some googling, read some articles that seemed to be well researched, particularly from english heritage about the role of women.
Then I was slapped down and told that anything about the role of women in the abolition of slavery was just made up by white feminists.
So I was going to come back and ask for recommendations of books, articles that I could read, but before I could do that, someone else had come along and posted that google is the way to go and we should not be lazy and just do our own research.

Hmmm, but without the comparable stat for entry by white working class boys into high versus low tariff universities, that screenshot is unhelpful.

Look, believe whatever you like, yes white working class boys are the second most poorly educated sector of our society, but black carribean lads pip them to that particular post on all measures.

Actually as I said the worst performing of all groups are the travelling community. However if you don't believe the legacy of slavery accounts for the poor academic attainment for this group then honestly I think you are deluded.

From the BBC’s extraction from the same report, comparison of white children vs Black Caribbean children, all on free school meals, the Black Caribbean pupils appear to be achieving twice as many offers (32% vs 16%).

Ah, apologies for the cross post. I’m only commenting on the HE aspect. I have no fixed view on the impact of the slave trade on educational outcome; I’m learning as I follow this thread. Please don’t get cross.

I objected to the outlandish claim that if women had the vote, then slavery would have been abolished decades earlier. That particular view is white feminism. My saying that isn’t even remotely “slapping you down” or saying “anything about the role of women in the abolition of slavery was made up by white feminists” 🙁

Yes, you’re welcome @Morestrangerthings

It does depend on how you define success. If you define it terms of km2 colonial territory acquired at empire peak- British Empire wins. If you define it in terms of what is the most widely spoken language- British Empire wins again with English. If you define it in terms of how many people today outside Britain are descended from colonists- British Empire wins again.

How are you measuring Portugal being the most successful?

@DownNative thank you for the posts on Irish history.

The Portuguese enslaved more Africans. I posted figures a page or two back.

No problem! 👍

What you call “revisionism” I call including African voices about our history.
It was for survival, there was no profit. If there had been then why was Africa even poorer when the transatlantic slave trade ended while Europe was stinking rich?

They did, 3.9 million to Britains 3.2 million. They had higher mortality rates among the slaves they took too.

The Portuguese were absolute arseholes in colonial terms. I am not sure how they bave managed to fly below the radar in terms of blame.