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Original poster

Casual ageism towards women from teen DD

75 replies

coolnice · 07/05/2023 19:31

We were out and about at a tourist place today having a lovely day and A lady walked by late 30s to mid 40s wearing cut off denim shorts and a vest

And after she passed DD (13) said omg mum did you see the absolute state of that woman ?? her bum was practically hanging out (it wasn't) expecting me to laugh. Well I didn't I said to her i thought she looked nice and that's not okay she can wear what she wants. I said you wear stuff like that (she does) and DD said yeah but she is SO OLD and saggy and it's disgusting.

personally I thought she looked lovely and wasn't remotely saggy not that that matters as I think people should wear what the fuck they want regardless of age / body shape etc

I tried to explain why it wasn't okay to be so mean and how that lady (and anyone) has the right to wear what they want. and asked why she thought is young skin is okay to be out but older skin isn't? but failed as DD was just laughing and then I changed the subject as i was honestly so angry and I did not want to ruin the day.
Made me a bit sad as well as is that what she thinks of me as I wear shorts etc when it's hot not that I should care !

I am in my early 40s and in the last 10-15 years have discovered feminism and read a lot and had my eyes opened but when I was young I felt exactly like this too. And it's wrong and I'm very embarrassed for the younger me. I feel like I need to talk to her about casual ageism and the internalised misogyny that gets so ingrained from an early age. That she too will be older and subject to the same ridicule and attitude that she displayed today. But how to broach that with a teenager ? As teens by their nature don't quite believe they'll ever get older !

OP posts:
alexdgr8 · 07/05/2023 19:36

could you introduce the subject when you are both relaxed, from the angle of feeling slightly hurt that she might laugh at and mock you for dressing in a similar way.
so come at it from a personal angle, how you honestly feel, rather than preaching about correct attitudes etc.
any kind of indoctrination attempts will not work.
try to open up a discussion.
good luck.

cstaff · 07/05/2023 19:47

Ask her how she would feel if one of her friends said something similar about you, not knowing you were her mum. Would she defend you or just let it pass "to stay cool". She is only 13 and everyone over 21 is ancient as far as she is concerned probably.

JMSA · 07/05/2023 19:50

I would bollock one of my teenage daughters for saying that. They need to learn that not all thoughts should be voiced. And ideally the thought wouldn't be there in the first place!

Loopyloooooo · 07/05/2023 19:52

I think you went too easy on her TBH, I'd go apoplectic if one of mine said that at that age.

Clymene · 07/05/2023 19:53

I would have absolutely laid into her. It's just as disgusting and unacceptable as homophobia, disablism or any other kind of discrimination. It's appalling

Beginningless · 07/05/2023 19:58

alexdgr8 · 07/05/2023 19:36

could you introduce the subject when you are both relaxed, from the angle of feeling slightly hurt that she might laugh at and mock you for dressing in a similar way.
so come at it from a personal angle, how you honestly feel, rather than preaching about correct attitudes etc.
any kind of indoctrination attempts will not work.
try to open up a discussion.
good luck.

I agree with this. While I understand those saying they would have been strong on this with her. I would have if she had said it where the woman could hear, but it doesn’t sound like she did. I think it’s a shame to teach kids/young people that some thoughts are unsayable, as then there’s no chance to address it and help them think critically. While it’s how I was raised too, shaming doesn’t usually open the mind but closes it.

Mummy08m · 07/05/2023 19:59

I'd point out to her that what is truly "sad" is measuring a woman's worth by her attractiveness. Just that, should be enough to open her eyes.

I remember when I was really little like under 10, asking my mum why women sometimes lied about their age (pretended they were younger), as I noticed some of her friends did that. She couldn't explain. Whereas I, aged 9 or whatever at the time, would be so proud if someone said I was "mature" and seemed older. It's two sides of the same coin, rushing into sexually/reproductively-available age and trying to stay in it as long as possible because that's when we're worth anything. I refuse to play that game and (like you, op) I'm determined my daughter won't.

HoisttheMainSail · 07/05/2023 20:02

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Forfrigz · 07/05/2023 20:07

A lot of women don't live to be early 40s, and a lot of the time it's because they're killed by men, let her know that.

lljkk · 07/05/2023 20:12

Let us know what convo you have & how it goes, @coolnice.

TomeTome · 07/05/2023 20:13

Be as disgusted as if she’d expressed homophobic or racist views. Shock her so she thinks twice.

Anotherparkingthread · 07/05/2023 20:14

I mean, there's probably not much you can say that will change how she thinks. You can stop her voicing these opinions to you but she will still hold them.

Just wait. 40 will sneak up on her before she knows it lol

FofB · 07/05/2023 20:14

I find ageism is the totally acceptable 'ism.'

When I 1st joined up to Twitter I was shocked by this. (I know, I know......)

I was following an older lady who did Humanist Weddings and she was discussing trans issues and her thoughts. Very interesting and she was taking time to explain her position clearly to others. I can't say I had an opinion either way but I was enjoying her explaining her thoughts. She was engaging and had obviously had a lot of wide life experiences.

Someone must have re-tweeted her because suddenly lots of younger people appeared on the thread to explain how she was transphobic. However, I was shocked by the first 'oh hurry up and die' and 'we don't care what you think because you will be dead soon.' Followed by 'old b*tch' and then a torrent of blooming awful ageist abuse. Now, I'm not shocked because it's normal on there but then I was.

AbreathofFrenchair · 07/05/2023 20:18

coolnice · 07/05/2023 19:31

We were out and about at a tourist place today having a lovely day and A lady walked by late 30s to mid 40s wearing cut off denim shorts and a vest

And after she passed DD (13) said omg mum did you see the absolute state of that woman ?? her bum was practically hanging out (it wasn't) expecting me to laugh. Well I didn't I said to her i thought she looked nice and that's not okay she can wear what she wants. I said you wear stuff like that (she does) and DD said yeah but she is SO OLD and saggy and it's disgusting.

personally I thought she looked lovely and wasn't remotely saggy not that that matters as I think people should wear what the fuck they want regardless of age / body shape etc

I tried to explain why it wasn't okay to be so mean and how that lady (and anyone) has the right to wear what they want. and asked why she thought is young skin is okay to be out but older skin isn't? but failed as DD was just laughing and then I changed the subject as i was honestly so angry and I did not want to ruin the day.
Made me a bit sad as well as is that what she thinks of me as I wear shorts etc when it's hot not that I should care !

I am in my early 40s and in the last 10-15 years have discovered feminism and read a lot and had my eyes opened but when I was young I felt exactly like this too. And it's wrong and I'm very embarrassed for the younger me. I feel like I need to talk to her about casual ageism and the internalised misogyny that gets so ingrained from an early age. That she too will be older and subject to the same ridicule and attitude that she displayed today. But how to broach that with a teenager ? As teens by their nature don't quite believe they'll ever get older !

Leaving the feminism and your recent discovery of it aside, your daughter, quite frankly, is rude.

Have you asked her why she thought it was acceptable?

Why was she expecting you to laugh? Do you normally laugh at her comments she makes about peoples looks? How has it been addressed today?

Hopefully you havent let it go and have had a discussion about why it's not acceptable.

Forfrigz · 07/05/2023 20:21

I'd point at the nearest youngun in hotpants and say 'and look, that daft tart thinks it's fun to pander to the male gaze, apparently oblivious most young men are now impotent by watching too much porn. Ew.'

whumpthereitis · 07/05/2023 20:21

Forfrigz · 07/05/2023 20:21

I'd point at the nearest youngun in hotpants and say 'and look, that daft tart thinks it's fun to pander to the male gaze, apparently oblivious most young men are now impotent by watching too much porn. Ew.'

…that’s not an improvement on the original.

Setyoufree · 07/05/2023 20:23

Have a read of Hags, I think you'll find it eye opening. Unfortunately it's ingrained into both sexes from an early age

Travelfan2021 · 07/05/2023 20:24

This reply has been withdrawn

Removed at poster's request due to privacy concerns.

Forfrigz · 07/05/2023 20:25

whumpthereitis · 07/05/2023 20:21

…that’s not an improvement on the original.

Show quote history

I know, some people only start to get it when you give the same back unfortunately

Forfrigz · 07/05/2023 20:26

This reply has been deleted

Removed at poster's request due to privacy concerns.

No, it's helping someone who struggles to.understamd other people exist. To be honest it's a bit excusable at the age of 13 but there are many people who could learn from such harsh ideas later on unfortunately.

Mycathatesmecuddling · 07/05/2023 20:27

Forfrigz · 07/05/2023 20:25

I know, some people only start to get it when you give the same back unfortunately

Show quote history

Do you also hit children to teach them not to hit?

ClareBlue · 07/05/2023 20:29

I agree, but older people also need to stop commenting on how teens dress, which seemed to be continuous when our daughters were teens.

Pussycatbeen · 07/05/2023 20:29

It's likely she's recently become self-conscious and aware of looks and of criticism directed towards females, so is (naturally in our culture at that age, unfortunately) in the process of internalising misogyny by joining the right clique or tribe in her mind.

I was brought up a feminist and was very aware of these behaviours around me at that age. I remember my anger and disgust at the rest of my class on a school trip sneering about our French teacher not shaving her armpits. I didn't shave mine either (as a feminist; I now do sometimes depending on activities/weather/mood), so, while standing up for the French teacher, I made a mental note to be careful not to let anyone see my armpits from then on.

My point is it's natural for teenagers to feel a desperate need to fit in and to be in the accepted group. So I'd approach it with this in mind, finding women in their 40s she might admire, who don't necessarily follow teenage or sexist stereotypes about looks; finding ways to discuss sexism and looks. I don't know if there's an up to date version of Naomi Wolf's The Beauty Myth. Last time I looked, Natasha Walter was good on feminism and topics like this. There must be podcasts and more, but I'm an old 40 something waaay behind the times!

Divebar2021 · 07/05/2023 20:37

A few years ago my DD then about 8 took the wind out of my sails by saying “ don’t you think your bikini wearing days are behind you?” I was about 48 and a size 16/18 and the only reason I’d bought bikinis for this big holiday was due to a thread on MN where plus size women shared images of themselves in their bikinis looking fabulous. I’ve no idea where she got that phrase from but we definitely had words about it and of course I had worn the bikini to the pool to make a point. There is kind of a youth cult in our society and casual ageism is very much accepted even among people who would die rather than be seen to be bigoted in other ways. You see it on here all the time… especially in Style & beauty.

Speedweed · 07/05/2023 20:40

Agree op, and I'd also tackle it from the viewpoint of why is she policing what other women wear? Does she feel she is entitled to wear what she wants - because if so, that is what all women should be able to do. She may not like what other women choose, but that doesn't matter, because it's the principle that we can all make our own choice that's key - whether that choice is mutton, dog's dinner, slapper or burqa and everything in between.

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