Increase in culture of envy

[BrighteyesBonnie]

AIBU to think that the culture of envy has increased significantly in the UK (if Mumsnet is anything to go by)?

For example, a thread by a lawyer asking whether their current salary is fair given their qualifications and years of experience contained a lot of responses angry that the OP is earning more than them and also ridiculing the OP for wanting a better salary.

Another example are threads on private schools, where there is a strong undercurrent of anger at those who are sending or want to send their children to private schools. Privately educated people are viewed with harsh lenses and often insulted.

Ambition and doing well do not appear to be appreciated if you’re doing better than the average.

I agree with you, OP. I mean, look at all the threads from people wanting report 'friends' who are on benefits because they're getting 'free money' and have it better than those who are 'working hard'. Envy at work, right there. Funny that none of those posters would ever just go on benefits themselves to find out what a life of Reilly it really is.

Low wages are rarely increased to attract staff. Otherwise carers would be better paid.
There is loads of research out there into all of this, look at Joseph row tree foundation. I mean the rssults of actual research don't fit your stereotypes, so you may not want to read it.

@Thesinisterdiagram and all without immigrants too !! Seems a lot of people want the moon on a stick- people to all move on , move around the country on a whim and get better paid jobs if they dare moan about poor pay or lack of affordable housing- but plenty of nurses, police, warehouse people, retail workers etc in their area and zero immigration either for these 'ordinary' jobs.

Ah, so you don't live in the U.K.
It's a lot easier to make suggestions from the outside. When you already have high taxes, and an equivalent high standard of living.
But in the UK 'middle earners' already think they're underpaid. They don't want to pay more taxes.
A sizeable proportion of which are the people you claim society derides for not being ambitious. Teachers and nurses. And all the others on the median wage of 30K.

Everyone wants 'other people' to pay more taxes. Not them.

Perhaps my experience of how things can work differently, rather than being used to deny me the right to an opinion, might serve as food for thought?

They are right though. You can’t compare. Here - almost 50% of the adults don’t pay tax and are funded by a small proportion of the PAYE work force. In a progressive system, asset rich pay more than workers, everyone pays more tax across the board and you don’t have nearly half of the adult population as net takers. It won’t work as not enough people in this country pay tax or work.

''@MargotBamborough · Today 08:37

But inequality isn't down to differences in people's salaries.

The biggest factors are generational inequality and inherited wealth.''

You really haven't thought that one through...

Of course having a low income affects your quality of life and that your kids and means you and your family don't have the same opportunities as others.

If you are disabled, a single parents, come from a disadvantaged background/a different ethnic background, have been through the care system, you won't have the same opportunities when it comes to education and the job market.

Your income also affect the quality of housing you can access and so on.

I have no idea what you mean about ''generational inequality'' either...

No, I think you're the one who hasn't thought this through.

Even on a high salary, it's difficult to get on the property ladder without family help.

Of all the people I know, whether or not they had access to BOMAD was the single biggest determining factor in when they were able to buy their first property.

And generational inequality means exactly that. My parents both went to university and graduated debt free. My dad bought a Victorian town house in one of the most expensive parts of the country (30 minute commute from Waterloo) for £20,000 in 1979. Last time that house was sold it went for about £650,000.

There is a certain section of the public that looks down on others less fortunate than themselves, believing them to be the architects of their own misfortune.

Showing you some facts and figures isn't denying you the right to an opinion - interesting you go on the attack instead of engaging with what has been given.
Ideas are easy. Implementation is hard.
You just want to virtue signal without actually doing any of the hard work of thinking more deeply.

Comparing figures almost 50 years ago with figures now, not accounting for inflation and supply/demand pressures does not help.

House prices start now at around 10 times normal income

Used to be possible for a teacher to get a house at around 2.5 times their salary

Where? In London?

Who are these people that look down on the less fortunate? And yes, more often than not, your choices or your parents choices in life will determine how you fare in society.

I read the post from the lawyer. I didn't interpret the responses as envy. I think most people were irritated that she mistakenly believed she could have made not gone to uni and enteted a different career and would somehow be earning £60k. The replies indicated other careers she could have taken and what her income would likely be. She'd also said £60k was a tad over £50k (or similar). They were correcting her and giving her a reality check, not showing envy. If anyone sounded angry it was her!
Had the post asked eg what other professionals in similar field and geographical areas were being paid the responses would likely have been different.
I've just read a Reddit post about a single parent dad prioritising his daughters wants over anything and dropping everything to please her. His gf is quite rightly getting fed up. Once again there's a pile on of folk saying how unattractive it is to be jealous of a child. She's not. She's pissed off with her BF for ignoring her needs.
So my response to your post is that being irritated, annoyed, angered or just disagreeing with something doesn't necessarily mean you're jealous or envious.

Oh come on, they're on Mumsnet every day. They're the people who read the Daily Mail and love all the articles slating those on benefits.

And if you believe that everyone in the UK genuinely has an equal chance at making it big in life, you're very naive.

It sounds like "ambition and doing well" in your opinion relates to aspiring for wealth and achieving a high salary!! It's not envy when people criticise the private school set up, it's equity. Would you consider wanting to become a cancer nurse or caring for the elderly "ambitious and doing well"? Clearly not. This sort of wanky aspirational bullshit is so embarrassing.

You said:
'Ah, so you don't live in the U.K.
It's a lot easier to make suggestions from the outside.'

Which I read - and apologies if I did misconstrue it - as telling me to keep my views to myself as they are an outsider's and therefore of no value to the discussion.

Not sure where the accusation of virtue signalling has come from. That would imply you think my views are more virtuous than yours somehow. I don't think I've implied that.

My point exactly, better and more succinctly put.

And it's about whether we 'do well' for ourselves or whether we 'do well' for the broader good of the society we live in.

Very much this. My DC2 is studying for a degree in Marine Biology and wants to work in conservation. Will they make pots of money and send their kids to private school? Probably not. Will they be of benefit to society and the natural world? Hell yes.

Shoes, I totally agree. It's really quite a telling reflection of how some people see themselves. Of course, as soon as care of any sort is required and the reality might sink in that "quality care" can't be bought and "doing well" might be about more than capitalism.

What about those who’ve gone through the same system and whose profession pays less than that of your daughter? Presumably you’ll want you daughter to face higher taxes on o help them out? Or are you only concerned about those who might earn more than your daughter?

Explain how criticising the private school set up is about equity? The sort of policies you would advocate, scrapping charitable status will make it even more the preserve of the very wealthy.

Explain how stopping others from accessing private school is all about equity.

And if ambition and doing well is not positively correlated with financial success, then why so much angst at those who are financially better off?

A lot of people on MN seem view this as a false dichotomy though ie that earning well means you are doing something bad for society, which isn’t true. A surgeon or judge or senior civil servant for example.