Increase in culture of envy

[BrighteyesBonnie]

AIBU to think that the culture of envy has increased significantly in the UK (if Mumsnet is anything to go by)?

For example, a thread by a lawyer asking whether their current salary is fair given their qualifications and years of experience contained a lot of responses angry that the OP is earning more than them and also ridiculing the OP for wanting a better salary.

Another example are threads on private schools, where there is a strong undercurrent of anger at those who are sending or want to send their children to private schools. Privately educated people are viewed with harsh lenses and often insulted.

Ambition and doing well do not appear to be appreciated if you’re doing better than the average.

Why do people keep saying communism makes things financially equal? It does not and never did. There were and are rich and poor in communist regimes. There were and are comrades who got the extra piece of land there and there etc. If you snitch your kids get to go to better school and so on.
Communism is not equality. It also killed tens of mil people so far...

Getting promotions, more qualifications and pay rises only solves the problem of poverty on an individual level, not a societal one. We need warehouse workers, retail staff, carers, cleaners etc. What would happen if all the low paid workers decided to ‘better themselves’ as people in this thread are suggesting they do?

And you’re the only one equating equality of opportunity to communism.

Then entry level ones come in. Then move up. New entry levels come in.
You can also do better without promotions with side moves. Your supermarket pays £10 and hour but the other two pay 12? Side move. Which would also then force the 1 supermarket to up wages if they keep hemorrhaging staff. Or make other changes. Smart isn't just up if same level pays more elsewhere

No so-called 'communist' regime ever actually implemented communism. The official line was usually of socialism as a transition to the communism that would take effect one day. And that was paired with institutional discrimination, repression and inequality. Pure communism is almost certainly unworkable anyway.

Sorry. Where?

@Schroedingersimmigrant have you been poor? I ask because you seem to think it is a choice to work in better paid supermarkets. Those jobs are very hard to get. You have to be fast, never ill and healthy enough to work very hard.

And lots of those jobs are not entry level jobs. Loads of people in their fifties and sixties are on minimum wage or just above.

I would say yes. I had to borrow money to actually get to work while living far away in shite sharedhouse. Started in fast food with the usual ridiculous shifts as well. No chance of saving anything that time too. Most people around me had to move around jobs to get better pay.

Do you mean as a student?

That's a quantum leap of logic.

You can whinge all you like about how 'society' values jobs. But for an individual, you can't get around the fact that money is needed to live. So for people who need to make their own : yes, better job, ambition = money.

Taxation is a different matter - 60% of taxes are paid by the top 10 of income earners. Not that the actual 'rich' do not earn an income. They have assets and wealth which have a lower rate of tax.

The countries with high taxation have EVERYONE pay more tax. Not just the 'higher earners'. And it's often not that clear cut.

https://ifs.org.uk/taxlab/taxlab-key-questions/how-do-uk-tax-revenues-compare-internationally

So.. you think that rich bankers should be taxed more. But if we were brought in line with other countries it's not them, but the teachers, nurses, social workers etc that everyone cries about who will be paying more. Would you be happy with that?

They don't actually only face barriers. Many are physically fit, young, able to move easily and have a network based on the diaspora.

"Why Do Immigrants Outperform Native-Born Americans? | Psychology Today United Kingdom" https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/nurturing-resilience/201910/why-do-immigrants-outperform-native-born-americans?amp

*also 60% means of INCOME tax. Sales tax etc are a different matter

Some of the rubbish being spouted on here is why so many people struggling get angry.
So many comments on here are just a sliver away from let them eat cake.

No as an adult when I came to UK

Exactly, the privilege of being blind to suffering and poverty around them. Must be nice in the bubble.

Okay thanks.
My DP is disabled. Had moved up from entry level jobs to better paid jobs but is now back in entry level jobs. No one wants to employ a visibly disabled 62 year old man.
There is a link posted below about research into why migrants tend to do well as they have various advantages.

PomTiddlyPom, yes, as a middle earner (as I said above) in a highish-tax economy (not UK) with a high tax and social insurance burden, I am happy with a progressive tax system. I'm also very happy with paying social insurance as a percentage of my income that means I pay a lot more in absolute terms than people with low incomes but they get the same healthcare and social care as me.

The main attribute mentioned in the linked article is grit. Hardly a privilege that the immigrants are exploiting. And the immigrants' diaspora is in no way more influential than that of the host country's inherent social network.

There are no easy answers to many of these problems. I know however that there are large numbers of current secondary school pupils who seem to be nihilistic almost in their mindset. See no point at all in education, knowledge, skills or even confirming to societal norms. I am a huge underachiever salary wise. Long story but things were very different back in the 80s - no loans for masters or law conversion. So despite having 3As and a B at A level at a time when these results would put you in the top 2% of academic results and medicine only asked for 3 Bs, I have a very mediocre job teaching in a state school. I know I can teach my subject as well as anyone and can teach children to achieve the highest grades. Unfortunately, so many have low aspirations and certainly none related to academic achievements.

When people talk about immigrants doing well- I often feel they are adding into this those of non white Brits- particularly Asian and oriental who in some cases were actually born here- so not always immigrants as such.

I lived in a street at one point full of wealthy indian families . What was very noticeable was they bought huge houses and had 5 cars in the drive and often 7 or 8 adults living there of all ages. It did seem to me a different way of organising 'family money' and hence there was more money to 'buy franchises, set up businesses etc' without the risk of being out on your ear if you couldn't pay rent that month. I don't think this is the British mentality, we don't tend to want your parents living with you or your brothers family etc. we want to be self sufficient within a very small family grouping. Hence I think many of these families have a kind of security that others don't have. Clearly if you are talking about Syrians coming here with nothing that's a very different situation

Being young and healthy makes a big difference.
I grew up in a very poor area and my school social network either ended up in prison or having kids at 16 years old. That included some of my own siblings. I had no social network to call on.

Yeah mn is full of posters who sit posting all day whilst slamming people who earn good money for working hard. Maybe less time on mn being bitter and more time being productive would help.

I sometimes wonder if I would have been better emigrating at 16 instead of going into full time work in the UK.

But that’s assuming that there’s an equal amount of better paid roles for everyone to eventually move ‘up’ or sideways into? Most places will have a smaller number of higher paid management staff, with the majority in lower paid roles.

Also the whole ‘if companies can’t recruit they will have to increase wages’ sounds good in theory, but in practice we’re not really seeing this. Most companies would rather run on a skeleton staff or outright close down than increase pay. Or usually they just lobby the government to make it easier for them to import cheaper workers. My industry is struggling to recruit because the pay is rubbish for what’s expected for the role. Have salaries increased? No, the role just got moved to the UK skills shortage list so companies can continue to access cheap labour.