To expect 5yo DC to clean up after themselves?

[WhoSaidWhat123]

I think I’ve reached my limit tonight (overwhelmed and burnt our Mum here!). DD is very messy, does not clean up after herself at all, for example, she likes to draw, she’ll bring her box of felt tips to the lounge and draw lots, and once finished she will leave several paper on the floor, as well as the big box of felt tips and she’ll go on to do something else, like play with her Barbie’s, when finished she will leave them all over her bedroom floor, as well as the next thing she plays with, and the next! To which I then am always the “bossy” one who has to tell her to clean after herself, to which she sulks and moans and tries to refuse. To try and stop the mess in the lounge I bought DD her own desk and storage unit to store all her crafts but her desk is just covered in paper or things she collects so there is no room for her on the desk!!

AIBU to expect her to clean up after herself either tidy after each time she plays, before getting something else or before she goes to bed? While I was telling her yesterday that she can’t leave a mess on the lounge floor and expect me to clean it up, DH said “she’s only 5” to which today, when I was telling DD to clear her bedroom floor or she can go straight to bed with no shower she started crying and said that “she’s only 5” to which I just got so upset with DH because she’s obviously picking up on things he’s saying. Tonight she had so much toys all over her floor literally half her bedroom floor was covered in toys!

DH was brought up with his Mum cleaning up after him. He never had to do a single chore. Never had to make his own bed even. So he is the same, doesn’t tidy up after himself, doesn’t “see mess” as he says. The house is so tidy during the day because I’ll clean up after myself (on maternity with a newborn at the moment), and I’ll spend the morning cleaning and then when DD and DH comes home it’s just chaos. I know children make a mess, but surely they should clean up after themselves or not make such a mess?

I also got upset with DH tonight because it seems the options I have is
a. I carry on tidying up after everyone and just be miserable, or
b. I get used to everyone’s mess and accept living in a tip, or
c. I carry on being the “bossy” parent (which I really don’t want because I grew up with one).

or everyone just tidies up after themselves, which IMO is the best option for all, especially me!

@HadalyEve

In my classroom they are also expected to tidy up after themselves individually too.

Then you’re not very good at your job imho.
Top Tips for Effective Tidy-Up Times in the EYFS
May 2022

”The Key Role of the Adult – Modelling & being consistent. If you ensure that adults spend time within areas of provision at tidy up time, then they can model how the resources are handled with care and how an area is tidied. Modelling how to tidy up in this way and getting children to join in and help you is much more effective than simply telling your children what to do. If the environment is well organised, this tidying away together provides lots of opportunities for exploration of shape, number, reading and new vocabulary in meaningful ways.”
https://earlyexcellence.com/latest-news/press-articles/top-tips-for-effective-tidy-up-times-in-the-eyfs/

https://www.tes.com/magazine/archived/eyfs-how-make-tidying-effective-and-educational
“Top tidy-up time tips. Gather the children together first (especially if outdoors, as distraction levels are higher). Talk about what needs to be done, tasking small groups of children with each job.”

She should be helping to tidy her toys away in the living room. In her room I'd be less fussy. You should get DH to help her as he clearly needs to practice and maybe have this tidy up song on for encouragement. I've never heard of this song but it sounds like a good idea. I'd be furious with DH though for bad modelling behaviour.

She is only 5 and has a new sibling, huge change going on in her life, cut the kid some slack.

Get DH to tidy up with her instead of you doing it. Lower your standards a bit for her bedroom.

Think about what you as a couple are showing her about relationships and women's and men's roles in them. Children learn what they live.

Honestly I started when mine were around 2. They did it in creche, tidy up song toys out in huge toy box. It helped form the habit. I am fairly relaxed but wasn't going to look s gift horse in the mouth.

My youngest is 9 and while he can set up an elaborate battle scene spanning several rooms he knows to clear the decks for tv or device access

Start small put on a tidy up song do it together and as the littler one grows make it part of daily routine.

No, honestly I would encourage this. She tidies up after herself. She'd be taught the same in school at this age so no reason not to apply same rules at home. You'd be making a rod for your own back otherwise.

I do think kids can tidy up, DD goes to Montessori and the kids have to clean up there. They are very insistent. At home DD won’t do it herself very often but will if I ask her to, usually without complaining. If she does start whining I will tell her nothing else will be available until she cleans up and she’ll do it. I will also say I’m not available to help until she shows me she has started.

Of course a 5yo can tidy up. It's a constant conversation in our house and sometimes I have to firmer and sometimes he just gets it but he is just learning.

My 3yo can take instructions and tidy up. 6yo can tidy the playroom independently but he has ADHD so keeping him focused enough to do it can be tough. We have a fairly easy system (large drawers where all the toys go) which helps. 5 is often when they start wanting play dates after school but if the toys are everywhere and the room is dirty we can't have people round so thst is normally enough motivation to get the job done. Normally I am in the room, tidying one item and often direct the tasks to keep things moving.

6yo jobs are tidying and hoovering his playroom, he knows he has the responsibility of that job, which involves him getting to tell his brother what to do when they are tidying and he also gets to decide on what goes on the walls of that room and the decor because its his room that he is responsible for. He also empties the dishwasher and sits all the items on the side for me to put away. My DS and I are both very clumsy and as a child I was often yelled at for spilling so we never ever give into trouble for spilling even if he was being silly but it is always his responsibility to clean up any mess that he makes. He can set out the breakfast table for us all and both boys can clear the table to the dishwasher.

My brother is 34 and still lives at home and my mum rushes about cleaning up after him, he has never made a meal or done a load of washing or put a dishwasher on. I remember he got home from a weekend in his 20s and watching her going out to the car, bring in his suitcase, unpack and wash all his clothes and put them all away. I want my children to be self sufficient and they are so keen to learn and help at a young age so we have followed their lead on that.

She can help tidy up but you do need to manage your expectations a bit.....remember though it is really fab that she playa away independently and in a few years won't make anywhere near as much mess with any toys. So there is a fine line I think.

I am a teacher, we don't make them tidy up every single time they finish usimg a toy or drawing a picture. We stop at set times in the day for tidy up time. If a child makes a MESS mess, like has decided to empty boxes and boxes of toys then of course we call them bCk to do it there and then.

And I don't mean that about the tv, I mean if you constantly stop their playing to make them tidy she might give up doing the creative stuff because she'll get sick of being nagged about it.

Go to bed without a shower? That’s basic hygiene and not a luxury, surely? What a weird thing to punish her with. But really I’m not sure why she is being punished anyway?

Also, cannot fathom how it takes 2 hours to tidy everything up? My children get out literally every toy they own (and they have a lot!) and it takes no more than 15 minutes to put them all away. And when I say every toy I’m talking small toys like play food and figures and cuddly toys and crayons/pencils - literally scattered everywhere. I only tidy away after them at points where I think they have no room to play. Then they throw all the exact same toys back around the room. That takes 10-15 minutes every time I tidy up. I also have a newborn and still manage to clear up after the other 2 multiple times a day.

I think your expectation of ‘tidy’ are too high and instead of allowing her freedom to be a child you are upholding her to your stupidly high standards of clean and tidy.

If you want to instil some routines of tidying in then make them small and change your vocabulary. Don’t say ‘can we tidy up’ because a) it seems like a mammoth task to a child and b) you are asking a question and therefore offering an option. Make it: “Let’s tidy up the Barbie’s together.” If she refuses then tell her that it’s only one small task you are asking and it won’t take long. Or put a timer on and say: “I bet you can’t tidy up these Barbie’s in less than 2 minutes!” Kid’s love a challenge.

Ultimately, you just need to chill about your own expectations and not push them onto your 5 year old to make your life easier. Children aren’t easy… And keep on at your husband; annoying as it is he will get there eventually. Took me 7 years for my husband to start actually trying to be tidy and he’s still not perfect but good enough for me.

It sounds like you are (rightfully) resentful of your lazy husband and (maybe a little wrongly) trying to knock it out of your daughter instead of him.

If she leaves toys everywhere after being told to tidy, give her a few warnings and then I'd put them in a box and say they were left out so I'm taking them away for now.

When she is older and if you really want tough love I'd say anything left on the floor goes to the charity shop.

It sounds like you have too many toys if it's taking that long to tidy.

She would absolutely be packing her colouring supplies away at school, she is capable.

Your husband is a bigger issue. I call absolute bullshit on every man who 'doesn't see mess', what they don't see is mess that is their problem, because a woman will be along shortly to sort it for them like mummy did.

What are his regular chores?

The trick is to start slowly and make sure it's very easy to organise. So box for felt tips with felt tip label.

Box for barbies with label etc.

The use phrases such as "when you've tidied up your felt tips I can get dinner ready"

Make it an assumption she will do it and get the next thing.

But you may need to be even more specific such as "when you've put all your barbies in the box I can put your dinner on the table".

I'd also be tempted to respond to "I'm only 5" with "yes, 5 is perfectly old enough to be able to tidy up. I know that because you do it at school". Maybe even "Five is perfectly old enough to be able to tidy up. Anyone who can't tidy up past the age of 4 should be embarrassed"

Toy time out.

At 5 I'd tidy up with her after each activity but if she's refusing and it's a battle regularly I'd do toy time out. This is when evening tidy up when kids in bed you go around with a big box and all toys left out get time out. They get out of time out one at a time only when child shows they can tidy.

You can also make a statement with husband toy time out. But it's not effective against plates and rubbish, however these can be put on their bedside table to make the point

Four year old DD will occasionally ban us from the playroom so she can tidy it for a surprise, which is very sweet. She has her own ideas of what constitutes tidy but it’s her room so that’s OK.

It’s normal at that age to want to flit from one activity to another and not tidy – all you can do is the endless reminders, make a game of it, tidy with her not nag at her, and also have less stuff. I have a hard rule that nothing messy comes out until the last thing is cleared away, so if we’ve done painting she can’t then get out all the Lego – it doesn’t necessarily have to be her tidying it, I’ll do it, but that ties up my time so I can’t play Lego with her. So then she mucks in and helps. I do allow the colouring pens and books to be out at all times in the sitting room because I'm sick of tidying them up when they’re used constantly, and they’re a better babysitter than the TV.

She's likely to have been tired at 7pm and faced with toys all over the floor it's probably too overwhelming. That doesn't mean she can't ever do anything but you need to pick your battles and it needs to be age appropriate and achievable. When children help to tidy up in school or preschool it's literally a 5 minute job. So you could use a timer and see how much you can do together in 5 minutes.
My now 12yo also used to make a huge mess of her room and when she was younger I really minimised what was kept in there and stored several boxes of her things in other rooms.

DD has been tidying up since she was 2 so your 5yo is more than capable. We tend to leave things out unless they're in the way and not being used (so I'll say let's put the jigsaws away so we have space to play picnic etc) and then everything away before tea so it's properly tidy. If there's something she's part way through then we'll m

😫 daft fingers managed to cut me off!

Anything she's part way through we'll move to one side so she can pick it up again the next day but everything else is tidy so it's fine. DD needs to know where everything lives though so she can put it away, and of course we'll help her if needed but she's generally in a good routine of tidying.

Maybe even "Five is perfectly old enough to be able to tidy up. Anyone who can't tidy up past the age of 4 should be embarrassed"

Please don't say this, there are much better ways to deal with this than tell a 5 year old that she should be embarrassed.

You are focusing on a 5 year old not tidying up but what about your dh? That far me would be the bigger issue and I would be pointing it out to him instead. My 5 year old has to be reminded to pick up after himself and does, it's not something he cries about. We do it together like they do at school. Dh and I both tidy up though so they don't see it as just mum's job. Same when I was little, both patents tidied up. My dad in particular instilled in is that our home belonged to all of us so we all had a shared responsibility to keep it clean.

Just a thought about her bringing her art stuff into the living room instead of doing it at her desk, perhaps she wants to be where you are. When I had my third child I would just feed or play with her wherever her brother and sister were so they didn't feel left out and I could keep an eye. I could also tidy up alongside them before they moved on to the next game/task.

Oh my goodness 5 is definitely old enough to tidy up after themselves 😂😂

Our 3yo tidies up after herself but it's been drilled into her from a young age. She also knows she can't get anything else out until what she's been playing with is tidied away.

We explained that when things are all out and messy, they're not being cared for and things will get broken - which is true.

I'll sit and help her with things that are trickier to tidy up like painting, or play dough etc, but usually she will tidy up unprompted.

We made it into a game when she was much younger, so put a timer on and then have a "race" to tidy up as much as possible in x amount of time

It's worth saying though that me and DH are pretty tidy ourselves so we're both always modelling it.

It’s good to get them into the habit of helping but none of my kids could have independently tidied at that age. In fact my 12 yr old is pretty shit at it still. I’m afraid you have to do it with them at that age.

You have a DH problem first and foremost.

Of course your DD is going to be messy and refuse to tidy up if she's seeing her dad get away with it!

Children in reception in my school have a tidy up song and everyone tidies up, not just a few. Yes they might need some prompting and encouraging but they do it and your DD can too!

But, you need to have your husband on board because he's taking the piss at the moment.

My DS was a very tidy little boy and actually liked to today and didn't like a lot of clutter around him as he played. Now he's 19 and his room is a fucking disgrace.