To expect 5yo DC to clean up after themselves?

[WhoSaidWhat123]

I think I’ve reached my limit tonight (overwhelmed and burnt our Mum here!). DD is very messy, does not clean up after herself at all, for example, she likes to draw, she’ll bring her box of felt tips to the lounge and draw lots, and once finished she will leave several paper on the floor, as well as the big box of felt tips and she’ll go on to do something else, like play with her Barbie’s, when finished she will leave them all over her bedroom floor, as well as the next thing she plays with, and the next! To which I then am always the “bossy” one who has to tell her to clean after herself, to which she sulks and moans and tries to refuse. To try and stop the mess in the lounge I bought DD her own desk and storage unit to store all her crafts but her desk is just covered in paper or things she collects so there is no room for her on the desk!!

AIBU to expect her to clean up after herself either tidy after each time she plays, before getting something else or before she goes to bed? While I was telling her yesterday that she can’t leave a mess on the lounge floor and expect me to clean it up, DH said “she’s only 5” to which today, when I was telling DD to clear her bedroom floor or she can go straight to bed with no shower she started crying and said that “she’s only 5” to which I just got so upset with DH because she’s obviously picking up on things he’s saying. Tonight she had so much toys all over her floor literally half her bedroom floor was covered in toys!

DH was brought up with his Mum cleaning up after him. He never had to do a single chore. Never had to make his own bed even. So he is the same, doesn’t tidy up after himself, doesn’t “see mess” as he says. The house is so tidy during the day because I’ll clean up after myself (on maternity with a newborn at the moment), and I’ll spend the morning cleaning and then when DD and DH comes home it’s just chaos. I know children make a mess, but surely they should clean up after themselves or not make such a mess?

I also got upset with DH tonight because it seems the options I have is
a. I carry on tidying up after everyone and just be miserable, or
b. I get used to everyone’s mess and accept living in a tip, or
c. I carry on being the “bossy” parent (which I really don’t want because I grew up with one).

or everyone just tidies up after themselves, which IMO is the best option for all, especially me!

@WillowtreeHouse I’m not expecting her to clean the house at all! Just literally tidy her toys after herself when she’s done playing with them, before playing with something else or before bed.

I only threatened bed without a shower because it was almost 7pm and she was point blank refusing to tidy anything up, wanting me to do it on my own, and her bedroom floor was covered in all sorts of different toys.

I’m always there to help with tidying but I refuse to tidy for her while she watches me because that’s why she makes such a mess, because she doesn’t have to tidy it up after.

Mine are older and I have to help.
They simply can't learn everything all at once and they take longer to get to things

Does your child go to school? She knows how to tidy up!

If it’s taking this long she has too much stuff. No wonder she is struggling to manage it. Time to declutter and rotate.

You aren't being unreasonable to feel frustrated etc especially with your dh undermining you, but in this instance I think you're expecting a bit much. At that age I'd expect to say OK if you're moving on to x then we need to clean up y, how fast can you do it I'll time you. And make it a game or lend a hand until she is old enough to remember to do it consistently. Your problem is actually the your dh isn't reminding her so you're, I'm assuming, coming into a tip and feeling overwhelmed and then it comes out bossy. So you need to remind her sooner and gentler before you get overwhelmed by lots of things out at once. And most importantly your dh needs to be doing the exact same.

Of course she can help tidy up. Any childcare setting will teach this to children, I'm a CM & pop on a tidy up song, even 1yr olds will join in helping as we make a game on it . Any child not making an effort quickly learns they will miss put on next activity. Clearly my expectations are she appropriate but definitely a 5yr old should be making a decent effort.

Tough one OP. I think a) your DD is learning from her Dad so it’s not normal family behaviour to keep the place tidy and b) she has too much stuff available to get out. Definitely rotate/declutter toys.

Im surprised by everyone saying a 5yo can’t tidy on their own. They absolutely can! We’ve got clearly marked tubs for all the different toys and all my kids have been pretty adept at putting everything in the right place from age 4 or so.

OP I ping back and forth between A and B.

But we do have a new rule. DS is 6 and the rule is he can't get anything out until the last thing is tidied away. So if the Lego comes out and he wants to play on his switch then the Lego goes away. We've had tantrums, we've had refusals but it's starting to work!

I think I need to explain that I’m not expecting her to clean automatically without any prompting or help, what I was trying to say is AIBU to expect her to tidy up after herself and not refusing, and that it should be me who tidies away her toys etc.

I see now that I didn’t explain it properly.

I meant it off DH’s comment that “she’s only 5” so to not ask her to keep away her toys before going on to the next task.

And with me saying I don’t want to be bossy it’s not that I’m standing over her as a dictator, it’s that I ask her “DD can you please tidy your pens from the lounge and take them back to your desk” “NO I don’t want to”, “oh come on, I’ll help you, let’s put them back on your desk” “No, you do it.” So I just feel bossy when it gets to the point of me having to continually ask and, like today, gave her an ultimatum because I was just fed up after cleaning after everyone.

@SliceOfCakeCupOfTea

I think that’s the approach I’m going to take. I have tried it before and it does work but I need to consistently be on top of this, and I need to get DH on board too.

AIBU to expect her to clean up after herself either tidy after each time she plays, before getting something else

Yes, very. I went round to someone's house once, who made her little one do this. It was really sad.

YANBU to encourage her to put things away with an adult, every now and then throughout the day, or to work with her to guide her to do it at the end of the day - though that sounds like the worst time of day to start a battle to me.

Your dh and you should sort out your parenting differences out of ear shot, not in front of her, he is BU about that, but your expectations of a 5 yr old are way out here.

The only problem with that is your child will never learn how to do long term projects or multi-task. They will be forced to finish & then dismantle a Lego creation before doing anything else. So there will be no big projects that take three days of work to complete in spurts appropriate to their attention span. There will be no enjoyment or feelings of accomplishment if things must be taken down or put away straight away. There will be no chance of them learning that they have a 500 piece jigsaw to finish as well as other things like marble runs or science experiments or even child gardening projects to tend to.

5 year olds don't tidy up without being asked but of course they can. I would just do a tidy up and the end of the day with her, i think its mean to keep interrupting play to tidy. Could your husband be in charge of managing the end of the evening tidy ? Even if he doesn't "see it" 🤔, it's just part of the routine then.

My almost 3yo is the same so now I ask her to tidy up before she gets the next toy/game/activity out. She doesn’t always do it and we do have to help and encourage but it’s slowly working. Also introduced a star chart where she gets a star for tidying up and 5 starts equals a treat

Play Is really beneficial for children, especially as your daughter is doing things like colouring, if you make her keep tidying up all the time she'll just think "sod this I'll just go and watch TV".children can make mess it's your husband who needs to help!

I had similar issues with my kids not cleaning up until I started work in a pre school. We take them from 2yrs 8mths and 1st rule is we never tidy up after any child, they must do it themselves. I have yet to meet a child that cannot and I have to say this shocked me at first. Yes they need help maybe picture labels on boxes and you need an organised system but you would be amazed how good their ability to sort is. The biggest issue is motivation. We just say if you don't help tidy up the blocks then no blocks tomorrow and follow it through, removing the box completely. That said it rarely happens, we might ask them to help a bigger child or sit with them to help etc. There is lots of praise and rewards for good tidying. It amazes me that it works every time.

Of course it's much harder with your own as they take the piss. But if you organise a system with her help and follow through removal of boxes it will work. She will learn by natural consequence rather than giving out

I try to raise my 4.5 year old to help out round here. I raise him to believe it's very much a 'team effort' around here rather than me doing loads. He makes his own bed every morning (with reminding & help), puts his laundry in the wash baskets and tidies up after himself (admittedly he does need reminding / promoting). I will step things up as he gets older. Dh grew up doing loads so we are on the same parenting page which helps massively. I feel for you that dh isn't really on board.

You are not unreasonable to expect your child to tidy up! The younger they start, the more they accept it as 'normal' imo.

I do help ds when it's a big job e.g Lego out everywhere. But if he gets lazy and takes advantage of my help he soon finds he has to finish the job off without my help (after 3 warnings).

Four and five year olds in reception at school are expected to tidy up after themselves. Not sure why they can't do the same at home.

Do you think teachers at school tidy the entire classroom whilst the children sit there bewildered at this thing called tidying? Do they hell.

She puts stuff away when she has finished with it just like they would clear desks at school. We can always tell who tidies up at home and who is treated like a prince/princess. I deliberately leave piles and make sure no other students touch it so that those who try to shirk their tidying responsibility doesn't get away with it.

Always try to use positive language though rather than don't leave your shoes in the lounge, more you know where your shoes belong go and put them away.

@Sugargliderwombat bullshit, no tv in this house until you have tidied up. She is 5, not 15. I have late teens with very tidy bedrooms. They learned from a young age to tidy up and put things away that includes anything from the lounge or the kitchen. We mollycoddle way too much. In reception aged 4 and 5 they get their own lunch, are responsible for scraping their tray of left overs, empty their glass and put that, the tray, and their cutlery in the correct places. They tidy classrooms, wipe down tables etc, all good for cross-body movement. Yet at home parents claim they are too little. They might need reminding and prompting but it soon becomes something they get used to.

@Sugargliderwombat she has her own desk which is the dining room and is an absolute mess, but I don’t touch that or don’t tell her to tidy it up because she has stuck pictures she has made, little “ornaments”, sorted things in her (messy!) way, but I leave that be because it’s her desk, and she enjoys “decorating” it. But pens and paper in the lounge, in the middle
on the floor I have to draw the line. But I don’t mind them being them when she is using them.

It's too much to expect her to remember to do it but you shouldn't have to do it for her. Just make sure you're stopping her moving onto the next thing until it's put away. I wouldn't punish her for not tidying up automatically - but there are natural consequences for moaning about it if you ask her eg the longer she takes to do it then she missed TV / story time etc

No they’re not. Not as an individual and by themselves. Tidying up is done as a group/team with the supervision and assistance of adults.

Yabvu she's 5.