To think this is not what parental leave is for?

[Friendlybreadbin]

I may well BU but interested in people’s opinions. My company offers a fairly standard 25 days plus bank holidays leave package. New colleague comes from a company where they had been for over 20 years and so had got up to 30 days, their old company also offered a ‘buy an additional 10 days leave’ package. Our company doesn’t. Having passed their 3 month probation period (where they also took a lot of leave) they are using leave days like they are going out of fashion, and have already had a skiing holiday and an all inclusive this year. As well as lots of other random days off, it’s seems rare they work a full week. Have been openly saying that they intend to take unpaid leave because they can’t see how they will possibly manage on 25 days when they were used to 40 days and asking how does anyone do that with kids? I have not dissimilar aged kids and have managed with 25 days for my whole career. There are no special needs or circumstances. Their job is flexible and from home.
AIBU that they should learn to manage within their holiday allowance that they accepted by contract? Or as the extra leave is unpaid is this an acceptable strategy? It seems to me they intend to exploit parental leave just because they feel entitled to more holiday than they are contracted to have.
Our company charges customers rates for their time and will therefore lose revenue as we can’t charge when they are OOO. I am their line manager.
I have managed people for 20 years and have never come across anyone with this attitude before, when I have managed people who have taken parental leave it has been for understandable reasons.

1. @FarmGirl78 Parental, or dependents/emergency carers leave is for emergencies only, such as your child being sick, or husband needing help at home after a car crash. Once it's beyond a couple of days it's not an emergency and instead other plans should really be made, such as using annual leave. If you don't have enough annual leave left then it's unpaid.

Totally wrong. Emergency carers leave is not the same as parental leave. Parental leave is not for emergencies. It is a statutory leave entitlement that every company has to allow their employees to take. It is booked in 1 week blocks. It is for spending time with your children, even taking them on holidays.

Just drawing attention to this response. And adding that:
if his time off means he can't meet his targets then you might be looking at performance managing him; and
a PP said that the company's profits weren't the OP's problem, but her team meeting their targets is likely to be, and if her team can't meet its target because of the new starter that could impact her career.

I use all my holiday leave, plus parental leave, plus sick days and unpaid leave just to get extra time off. If I want to go on holiday then as far as I'm concerned I work to live ajd don't live to work. I refuse to get to 80 ajd look back at just a life of working. Family time is the most important to me.

If this is affecting the business, the obvious answer - as you are the manager - is that you don't approve his (unpaid) leave.

I used to work in job where I only had 4 weeks holiday per year. And I also managed fine. It included weekends so I missed a lot of family occasions which was hard but it was my job and I was used to it.

now I have a job with over 9 weeks holiday per year. I now also have a child.
now that I have so much leave, if my leave went down to 25 days I would struggle. I would really miss those extra days with my child. I would definitely take whatever I could afford to spend with my child.

Yes, but if it is unpaid leave, how would they pay their bills?

Between unpaid leave and parental leave, I can see why so many are having trouble paying bills. How is this handled if you're a salaried employee?

I think it sounds wonderful, but I would be worried about having to make do with 1–2 months less money for bills.

Haven’t RTFT but they aren’t “entitled”, they’re entitled! (As soon as they qualify).

I get 25 days as standard, buy another five, then since my son started school last year I’m choosing to take another week of parental leave to spend more time with him over the summer. I feel fortunate I can afford to take the unpaid time off, and fortunate the Government provides this flexibility to working parents.

Will you dismiss the employee, OP? Is their extra & unintended absence going to create problems for you?

I don't see the issue proving nit doesn't impact other staff members.

Wish people would actually read the OP before jumping in. Don't have to RTFT but the post was quite clear about the situation.

I guess if it is starting to negatively impact the "needs of the business" then you should discuss it with HR and see if there are any policies etc.

Tbh I think it would probably be a good thing if more people started doing things like this... like someone else posted, maternity leave didn't used to be a legal requirement and it's good that it is (although could be a lot lot better). I would prefer more holidays or more flexibility to spend more time with my family.

Some people stay late and work unpaid overtime every single day (my sister as an example) and get resentful at the people who can't and won't saying that it is "expected in this line of work". Why? Why should companies be getting free labour from people. If people stopped doing it they'd stop expecting it. If people started requesting more leave then perhaps companies would start to offer that as a company benefit/perk and things then might make their way to actual legislation.

Try saying this;

”no, you won’t be able to do that this year, but once you’ve been here a year you can request parental leave in line with company policy. Also, for the remainder of your first year with us, we will only be able to authorise leave that you’ve already accrued. Hope that clears things up.”

why did he take a job with the leave that doesn’t suit him? I get 25 days plus bank hols plus can buy 10, I just wouldn’t go anywhere that didn’t have a good leave package unless I was desperate, in which case I’d have to just suck it up.

Wow I'm glad you're not my manager, what an old-fashioned attitude. People are so set on putting their job before their kids. If he can afford it, let him have his days off. Offer that flexibility and chances are he'll be a good and loyal worker.

DH took 2 weeks last year. It was brilliant 😄We have 3 kids but yes, he wouldn't take 12 weeks every year because it's unpaid. But the option to take a few weeks every year to be with the kids is invaluable. And an entitlement. So we'll take what we're entitled to! Reminds me to get him to plan this years'!

Yep I've learned that now.... Someone else pointed it out. Apologies! I'm lucky that my organisation is really good with stuff like this - flexibility with work/life balance when it's needed is REALLY valuable and much appreciated.

Another example of the haves and have nots. I had heard of parental leave, but only having worked in low paid retail. The only people I knew taking it was for emergency days off when a child was sick. Most couldn't really afford unpaid time off. I didn't know they could just take an extra holiday.

Most just exploited sick, so they still got paid to the point of keeping reminder on their phones of when they could take another week without instigating disciplinary action. We all knew who did it.

Maybe I'm odd but I think if you take a full time job and then try to engineer it so you are only working 4 days per week, or want to take lots of time off (even unpaid), then you aren't doing the job you were hired for and agreed to do.

When she is taking unpaid leave, who is covering her job?

I think there's a responsibility for parents to assess whether they can manage on the holiday allowance before accepting a new job - I don't think it's right to take on a job and assume you can just work when it suits you.

They're obviously paid well, lol!

You can approve or otherwise unpaid leave based on business need - Id read that as actual work load being too high for the rest of the team to cope and not turnover, though turnover could be considered as business critical if the company is struggling.

The use of parental leave is evidence based. Childcare during school holidays falling through, illness etc.

You need to speak to them. Be very clear the business imperatives and where it is acceptable to use parental leave. You could offer them a part-time contract. This may in fact solve your and their problems eg 4 day week versus 5, assuming your workload can accommodate this.

The point is with someone who feels entitled to abc they will do whatever it takes to obtain whatever it is they feel entitled to, so make that outcome best for you.

Good luck, I dislike entitled views, they're the same as people behaving like they have privilege.

With parental leave though, you only get 13 weeks and so what does he plan to do once those have all been used up??

He took the job knowing what the holiday entitlement is. I think it’s time for a frank chat!

I had a colleague who asked to reduce his hours to a 4 day week. The company refused so he took a parental leave day (teenage children) one day a week until it was used up and then left; he was excellent at his job and it was a great loss. I don't have children and am too old to have them now but I still think PR is a great idea for larger companies because what tends to happen is that when these policies are in place companies tend to try and make better policies for all staff.
I get 30 days a year and buy 5 and it's a major incentive for me to stay with the company.

Can't believe I never knew this existed. Would have made my life a whole lot easier.....

OP, I certainly wouldn't be approving all their requests unless it truly didn't disadvantage other employees and the business. I think it's taking a job under false pretences tbh, so I wouldn't be prioritising them getting the time off that everyone wants, if that means other employees having to cover their work at busy periods or not getting an equal opportunity for time off themselves. It has to work for the business and be fair to other workers.
You can say no to them just deciding on an ad hoc basis when they want to work and make them schedule parental leave for when it doesn't negatively impact the business.

Wow you sound jealous. If he chooses to take UNPAID leave to manage his work life balance then good on him for taking control of his life.

You are his manager you should be helping him achieve a good balance. Company profits don't trump good employee mental health. You may find he is more productive when he works if he feels happier and healthier.

I was confused about why you were bothered until you said you were their line manager. As their LM it's you're responsibility to manage their holiday allowance and you have the autonomy to decline a request if it's going to be a problem for the team (obviously with good reason) . And to ensure they manage and spread their holidays out appropriately so they aren't left with nothing by the middle of the year, meaning they start taking sickness absence or requesting lots of unpaid leave (obviously parental leave is a right). I do think 25 days per year is difficult for someone with kids, and it's a shame more companies don't offer buying holidays etc, life is for living afterall! We shouldn't have to sell our souls to our employer.

the absences are causing issues for the business.
If the business's profits and operations are based on employees not taking the leave they are entitled to, OP, then that is not your fault or the fault of this one employee. It's the company's poor policy making your job harder than it should be.