To think teaching should be one of the highest paid jobs?

[donutque]

Not a teacher, but my logic seems sound.

I’ve seen plenty of threads / comments on here that question if teachers are really that underpaid (often quoting 28k as a starting salary) which seems like a strange race to the bottom.

I work in finance and wouldn’t take a job for a low salary, I’m in my twenties and I’m compensated well. I believe I deserve that, I name my price when I go for jobs and won’t accept lower. This is because I’m 1) qualified 2) have a skill and the market demands me, I am in short supply.

I can see a response I may get is that
teachers, whilst good, aren’t necessarily the most intelligent or talented / high quality individuals. But IS IT ANY WONDER?! The top talent graduates and gets sucked in by the big 4 / investment banks / magic circle all because of money (I promise you that it is rare that a child just bloody loves debits and credits, has a passion for selling stock, or checking the bank statement matches the p&l) Of course, some top grads go into teaching but this is usually because of their personality type (desire to give back / do good / love of children). It’s not the common occurrence. They certainly aren’t doing it for the big pay off.

So if teachers started on, let’s say, £30k but upon qualifying were paid £50k, with a teacher with 5-10 years service being on 60/70/80/90k (no extra responsibility), I guarantee applications would be flooded. Teaching would be a career that is attractive. You’d have the best teachers, which is important. Not just for basic education but teachers are what gets your little offspring into university to become the next doctor, lawyer, politician, plumber, accountant and so on. Teachers are LITERALLY the backbone of society.

Scandi countries document well how education leads to greater GDP, and a basic understanding of economics will explain why paying teachers well is far more beneficial to the economy than anyone who says “but how do we afford it?!”

so, AIBU to think teaching should be one of the highest paid jobs?

And you know this how?

I don’t think that this big (salary) idea would work. The motivating factors and demotivating factors of a job are usually different. For example pay and benefits if sufficient for one’s needs become a non-factor, more remuneration does not increase job satisfaction and it doesn’t even alleviate dissatisfaction, you cannot enjoy the benefits of a better salary if you are 24/7 stressed out about the little shits in 7D.

so to improve satisfaction. I’d suggest smaller classes, more freedom in the curriculum, better support for discipline and maybe review assessment targets to be more subtle. Also since the structure is quite hierarchical career path is probably a bit boring. Maybe novel alternatives to promotions could be developed, like regional history teaching expert or something.

I honestly think that a lot of workers think if only I could be paid “X” I’d be able to stand it here. Only to find that they are still unhappy.

Agreed
and..
I can see a response I may get is that
teachers, whilst good, aren’t necessarily the most intelligent or talented / high quality individuals. But IS IT ANY WONDER?! The top talent graduates and gets sucked in by the big 4 / investment banks / magic circle all because of money

What a burnt turd of a statement.

Top talent graduates do NOT all want to go into finance, because not everyone wants to.

You are both being incredibly arrogant to assume that teachers skill sets are ‘below’ yours.
The thing is, to believe that other professions don’t have valuable skills is wilful ignorance.
I do think teachers should be paid more though

I disagree because they would still have the workload and unhealthy work life balance. I think they should be paid more but I think people would be much happier with their job as a teacher if they actually got the support they needed such as:

• appropriate number of TAs
• smaller class sizes
• actual time off to carrying out lesson planning etc.
• appropriate help for SEN children

All of which can be achieved by increasing funding for number of roles rather than salaries of teacher. Personally I think teacher starting salaries should be £35k going up to £60k with no managerial responsibilities.

I'm not a teacher and think they do an absolutely brilliant job but I'm in Scotland and apparently they can't get jobs because there's so many of them coming out of unis. Which suggests the pay isn't really an issue? I'm half thinking of retraining and think I'd quite like to be a teacher but the thought of getting a degree in education only to end up jobless puts me right off. So... market forces 🤷🏻‍♀️. I think the pay is decent for the amount of holidays, and again decent when it's pro-rata'd.

It’s such a weird Mumsnet thing to assume that everybody values a career in magic circle law firms.

I know plenty of extremely intelligent and talented peers and young adult kids who absolutely do not want to go into the city. They do not value the culture or the ethics there. Yes, the pay looks great, but they do not want to sell their souls for that kind of corporate environment.

Thank goodness many intelligent people want to go into other careers outside this tiny tiny professional environment.

Good accountants, lawyers and bankers do not always make good teachers. My son had one such city worker teach maths in y8. He was appalling and didn’t last the year.

Yes, but it should depend on their qualifications. If I was PM, education would be my 100% number one priority. The better educated a society is, the more civilised it tends to be. And education improves everything else. If you raise education standards, you improve health, crime statistics, economic performance, etc. It really is key. The best thing I have heard a British politician say in my lifetime was Blair when he said “I have three priorities: education, education, education.”

Sure, pay teachers well. But if it was up to me, their starting salary would be linked to educational achievement. A maths teacher with a masters degree would be paid more than someone with an ordinary degree, a history teacher with a PhD would be paid more than a teacher with an MA, and so on. In fact, if it was up to me, you couldn’t teach without a masters degree, and you couldn’t be a headmaster or teach A-levels without a PhD. Obviously that would mean helping people get those qualifications (via grants, etc), but it would be worth it.

I have maths, physics, chemistry and music A-levels and a degree in astrophysics. I am a primary school teacher and find your comment deeply patronising and ignorant.

A maths teacher with a masters degree would be paid more than someone with an ordinary degree, a history teacher with a PhD would be paid more than a teacher with an MA, and so on.

This makes no sense. Having a PhD does not make anyone a better teacher of year 9. I work with staff with a variety of education levels and it is absolutely not the case that their educational achievement makes a jot of difference. Teaching is about far more than that.

I have a PhD and teach primary. I am, coincidentally, an excellent teacher, but not because of my PhD.

I agree with you, it wasn't always like that. It is ashame.

Pay teachers footballer's wages and see how they like it.

Yea they should be paid more, so should nurses, police officers, the army. Police and army can't strike.

But a lot of people should be paid more. Or the cost of housing and cost of living shouldn't have got so out of control.

I don't like the way teachers/nurses are put on a pedestal compared to everyone else. Do supermarket workers and cleaners not also deserve to earn enough money to be able to afford decent housing and to eat and heat their homes?

I think most people's jobs are important cogs in a bigger machine. I'm public sector, non departmental government body. The work we do benefits universities and their researchers and students, has economic benefits, creates jobs amongst many other things. All of which is important to society.

Not many people have pointless or unimportant jobs. Influencers come to mind though.

No.

Teachers are the lead cause of bullying. I like cops better.

@Maxinemumof2 that's such an awful thing to say.

👏👏👏👏

Absolutely.

I've always said if only they realised education is the fundamental importance of keeping a country running we'd be ok.

But currently I think they don't see that because the independently educated pupils are what brings money to the party in charge.

And by keeping the population uneducated they think they can do and say what they like and people will listen.

For a decade they have. They aren't now.

People do wake up eventually when everything been reduced to bare bones and their lives suffer.

But they aren't willing.

The past 2 years they've not even met their training targets by 50%.

Recruitment and retention are getting worse term on term - not even year by year.

My DD is hoping to start a teaching degree in September. She's looking to complete her degree work for 2 or 3 years in the UK, qualify to teach English as a foreign language and then hot foot it abroad. She's had five teachers at her school do exactly the same - better pay, better conditions and more appreciation. I can't blame her tbh.

@ILBW teachers quite literally educate all of the people in all the other roles you mention.

Honestly…. No I don’t.
ex social worker here. I think you need great people doing teaching, social work, and nursing.
but I think it should offer job security, a decent salary but nothing mind blowing, good pension and good holidays and compatible with family life. I think the problem has been how stressful it’s become because of underfunding and ofsted and assessments etc etc.

Controversial opinion maybe but how much of what you learn at school really dictates your success in life anyway?

Average trade salary is now higher than both the average for office jobs and the average salary for graduates. You can get terrible qualifications, spend a week learning to drive a truck and then earn over £50k. Or a lot more as a self employed tradesman.

And? I agree, they should be paid more. But why are they put on a pedestal above many other people because they delivered an element, and not the only one, of their education?

They aren't all sainted and wonderful at their jobs. Like any other profession there are excellent people and rubbish people.

They're an important cog in a machine of many other important cogs.

Have you ever actually been in a classroom?
Your comment is hilarious.

It's true though. Teachers have their favourites, black sheep. Ignore bullying. I am tired of hearing about how much "teachers" are great. No. You have great ones but you have sh*t ones too. Funny how people say there are bad people everywhere, but somehow never among teachers or medical staff...

I remember , between 2006 and 2009, so not that long time ago (secondary school in another country). I am disabled, and gosh the teachers would always tell me "it prepares you for real life " when other kids would make fun of me. And when I would fight, I am the one who would get the punishment.

Racism was on the table too.

They always whine and strike. But they also need teachers to teach their children.