To think teaching should be one of the highest paid jobs?

[donutque]

Not a teacher, but my logic seems sound.

I’ve seen plenty of threads / comments on here that question if teachers are really that underpaid (often quoting 28k as a starting salary) which seems like a strange race to the bottom.

I work in finance and wouldn’t take a job for a low salary, I’m in my twenties and I’m compensated well. I believe I deserve that, I name my price when I go for jobs and won’t accept lower. This is because I’m 1) qualified 2) have a skill and the market demands me, I am in short supply.

I can see a response I may get is that
teachers, whilst good, aren’t necessarily the most intelligent or talented / high quality individuals. But IS IT ANY WONDER?! The top talent graduates and gets sucked in by the big 4 / investment banks / magic circle all because of money (I promise you that it is rare that a child just bloody loves debits and credits, has a passion for selling stock, or checking the bank statement matches the p&l) Of course, some top grads go into teaching but this is usually because of their personality type (desire to give back / do good / love of children). It’s not the common occurrence. They certainly aren’t doing it for the big pay off.

So if teachers started on, let’s say, £30k but upon qualifying were paid £50k, with a teacher with 5-10 years service being on 60/70/80/90k (no extra responsibility), I guarantee applications would be flooded. Teaching would be a career that is attractive. You’d have the best teachers, which is important. Not just for basic education but teachers are what gets your little offspring into university to become the next doctor, lawyer, politician, plumber, accountant and so on. Teachers are LITERALLY the backbone of society.

Scandi countries document well how education leads to greater GDP, and a basic understanding of economics will explain why paying teachers well is far more beneficial to the economy than anyone who says “but how do we afford it?!”

so, AIBU to think teaching should be one of the highest paid jobs?

@Cosyblankets

Good point. After it became an academy, the school in which I taught became the personal fiefdom of the Executive Head. No teaching jobs were created for relatives and friends (we used to joke that if all the staff were incinerated in a fire, you could not use DNA to decide who was who). Vanitybuilding-projects that were useless but looked good, while the actual school crumbled buildings crumbled and became dirty and shabby.

Seriously the academic grades of most teachers - GCSEs, A-levels, etc - are appalling. Not comparable to other professions at all. Considering that (and the holidays, and the pension) they are paid really really well.

Posters keep saying 'where will this money come from' ? Bit like a badge of honour.
How come there is no money for anything in this country ?
Even before covid we had no money despite the increasing number of very wealthy people.
We are told we are the 5 or 6th wealthiest nation. Where has all the money gone to pay teachers, nurses, social workers etc properly and fund public services
adequately ? Surely rather than questioning where the money is coming from we should be asking where has it all gone in comparison to places like Holland, Germany and Scandi countries ?

I'm not a teacher so no personal offence taken but that is quite a statement, have you got some statistics to back that up?

Can we have the occasional thread on Mumsnet which is not about teachers?

And what professions are you referring to?

That is Dr Postwarbulge, by the way!

People asking where the money is coming from :

At the moment, we're paying a considerable sum for a terrible, inadequate service. Inexperienced, temporary, unqualified, insufficient staff, poor SEN support, lack of resources, unfit buildings etc. Experienced teachers are unattractive to schools because schools aren't given the money to be able to afford them, let alone build a majority experienced team with the capacity to effectively coach newer teachers.

Resolving this would at least be taxpayers' money well spent; an investment in the future of our country's skills. Schools are a lot more than just childcare, which is how some people seem to see them. Our schools need to turn out the brightest and best, whilst also supporting those who need a bit extra.

Proper education is not a 'nice to have', particularly not for a country that sees itself as a world leader.

The point is, many people are looking at the job spec and then NOT applying for the job.

So yes, people knje what the

So yes, people know what the salary is, and are very much put off working as a teacher. Hence the current recruitment crisis.

I used to work in Switzerland where teachers are paid comparably to other professions. It is a respected profession and people are proud of being teachers. The trouble in England is that jobs that don't bring revenue are not valued. Having moved back to the UK, I think that's devastating. What sort of country doesn't value professions such as teaching, medicine, social care etc.

I agree. I'm shocked it's such a low starting salary. £28k is insulting for such an important job. I live in Ireland and if I'm not mistaken they start on around €40-42k here and it goes up to €70-75k before allowances. It should be higher honestly.

I'm not a teacher by the way, I'm a nurse. I don't know if it's the same in UK but here in Ireland nurses and teachers are often pitted against each other with people often drawing comparisons whenever teacher dare criticise their wages or workload. I hate this whole attitude.

Yes, we value things that have a £ sign against them, I mean what is the point otherwise🙄

More like when are we going to learn that not investing in public services in the short term only leads to a much bigger expenditure in the long term!! We can’t see it right now but the effect of the recruitment and retention crisis in education is going to be clear when todays children become adults.

Our society is going to pay for all the cost cutting that is happening across the entire public sector

@Goldenbear not sure whether you are being ironic. But in comparison to the rest of Europe thats actually quite unusual. Teachers, medics, academics and other professions are valued elsewhere. The UK is fairly unusual. And personally I think that's pretty poor

It's not the money though, It's the workload.
Even the world's best teacher won't be able to handle a class of 40 students, half of whom have various behavioural issues.
Not to mention the admin and marking.
Pressure from various stakeholders and lack of respect.

The people who choose teaching do so mainly for the work/life balance. When this is removed of course they leave.

So, OP, YABU. It would be better to pay 2 teachers 45K each with a class of 15. And spend the extra money on various support staff.

Than to give ONE person 90K and a class of 30.

@JagerbombsUnite sorry if I wasn't clear - by finding education I meant as a whole; from salaries to school budgets to research and training.

Also I 'do' think teacher pay should be higher. But should it be one of the 'highest paid' jobs?
Probably not.
Making the entire package as attractive as it used to be is enough, no need for all that AND extra money

I agree with this. You could offer me double my salary and I wouldn’t stay!

I am currently working on my exit
strategy and will be gone by Christmas. The relief I feel thinking I only have X amount of weeks left or thinking this is the last time I’ll ever have to do <insert stressful task or task these doesn’t even fall within my role but there’s no one else to do it here> is worth more than any amount of money to
me. My plans involve a pay cut and some form of personal Financial risk but that is so
much less stressful than the thought of
remaining in my current job.

The salary is not even in my list of reasons why I’m leaving.

Yes, but people aren't saying 'where will the money come from' for education.
They are saying where will the money come from... to spend 90K on a 10 year qualified teacher? These days when we will be working until 60+ they are barely quarter way through their career.

As @MrsR87 and teachers on various threads have pointed out it's not the money. It's the workload. Of course, you can argue that people 'will' accept a higher workload for more money. But that's not the profile of the sort of people who become teachers.

Had the OP said 'do I think there should be more investment in education' by increasing teacher's pay, adding support staff, reducing class sizes etc I'd be all for it! But not comparing teaching to finance - which pays silly money. Not a good profession for a 'reasonable' comparison.

🦇 💩

No. I don’t want the best, most talented to be teaching children. Imagine the scientists developing vaccines and cancer cures never doing that because they can make just as much teaching a bunch of 10yr olds photosynthesis.

I agree with this. You could offer me double my salary and I wouldn’t stay!

This happens in many professions. Even high paying ones in law and finance. People weigh up whether it’s worth it and make plans to get out

I’ve seen some sectors have exodus of women in 30s when dc come along

It’s not just teaching. People don’t have to stay but training more could be a way to go

Anyway it sounds like a pie in the sky idea anyway

@Samphiredragonfly
”We are told we are the 5 or 6th wealthiest nation.”
Maybe in 1823, but today we are more like 26th wealthiest (GDP per capita)

But bench research scientists aren’t well paid either?

Having made the route research scientist to consumer products industry to teaching, the (of little value to society) consumer products job was by far the best paid. The jobs that are genuinely hugely valuable to society - social care, education, research, medicine - are all less well paid than those which ‘make money or shift money around’.

What makes a good teacher is nuanced. A lot of soft skills are involved and not something that can be measured. The brightest minds are not necessarily going to be the best teachers. In fact, I have often found young graduates from the best universities struggle with teacher training as they can’t always teach to those who don’t ‘get it’. One of the best young teachers I ever trained had special educational needs - she couldn’t read until age 11 - but had gone on to get a PhD after years of hard graft. She had all the empathy needed to help children to learn. Money will not attract the right people.